3.2 liter V6 (250HP) coming to A4 ?

Japanese numbers are always overinflated !

I haven't heard of a VAG 3.2l motor, suitable for longitudinal installation.

There's no new engine slated for the A4 at this point in time. There *should* be, but there isn't. The A4 is a fantastic machine, but it gets stomped on by the 3 series and G35 in terms of performance. Audi seems not to care. VW doesn't seem to care much either, they're taking their sweet time getting the next gen. Passat togethor despite the new Accord and Altima/Maxima 3.5s giving it hell in the performance arena. VW sells the W8 Passat for around $40k, to much for a VW. But I'm fairly sure that the W8 would fit into the B6 A4. An A4 for $41-42k with Quattro and a 285 Hp version of the W8 (the current version already makes 270 Hp) would rock the sports-sedan world.

Add 10 grand, and you have a 340hp B6 S4. How's that for a sports sedan? ;-)

Pete

I'd rather the 2.7T came back with DSG to prevent lag between gear shifts :) Well, how about adaptive air suspension, some aluminum framing and the old chip to get it to 300HP? It'd perform so much better than the new S4 that it can't be possible. However, it will come as a big disappointment to me if Audi drops turbos except for in their RS's, which have consistently been clearly overpriced - except maybe for the RS6, which is supposed to be a hell of a car. I mean the RS4's brakes apparently suck for that price range.

If they were only clever enough to fit the DSG into say the 1.8T 190 HP, it would only take a chip to nearly match a manual 330i's acceleration.

By the way, the DSG can apparently change in 2/10ths of a second. How much faster is SMG? I seem to remember about half as much in its fastest mode, though it's way more rough?

JP

"Steve Grauman" escribió en el mensaje news: snipped-for-privacy@mb-m03.aol.com...

SMG-II is around 90ms and DSG around 7-8ms if I remember correctly

Gotta agree about the 280-ish HP. But that would have been enough n the S4. Of course, if the goal was to beat the M3, then I can see the desire for 340 HP in the S4.

Actually, I thought/expected that the natural progression of the S4 would be to take the new 3.0 litre engine and add twin-turbo. The B5 30v had 190 HP, and the twin turbo version (i.e., S4) had 250. By same logic, starting with the 220 HP in the B6 30v, the addition of twin turbos would bring it to 280-290 HP. I'd bet many of the tuner-types would rather have the twin turbo rather than the V8.

I think there's too much compression across the Audi model line: one can get esssentially the same 40v V8 in the S8, A8, S6, A6 and now S4. (I know the more mechanically inclined will argue). The range of HP is 300 to 360, if memory serves.

I have trouble with an entry-level sports car (I mean entry level inasmuch as it is the A4 model line, not the A6 or A8) having a gas guzzler tax. ..... There was some talk on vortex, I believe, about a sport A6 Turbo with 265 vs

250 HP for the final year of the C5 A6 in north america. At least they are now offering a 6-speed in the A4 1.8T.... too bad for $35k you still can't get a power passenger seat though....

The plain and simple fact of the matter is that the RS6 seems to be the only model in Audi's lineup with enough power and composure to be competitive. It stomps on the M5, but is that really a fair comparison? The M5 was designed to compete with the S6, which would get it's ass handed to it. The A4 1.8T pales in comparison to the 325I in a number of ways, same goes for the A4 3.0 Vs.

330i. I won't even bring the G35 into this discussion, which has better skidpad numbers, better accleration, and more features for less money than either the Audi or the BMW. The Germans had such a long run of being the best around, they're incapable of competeing aganist real competition from Japan. I'll be an Audi fan no matter what, but it's obvious they'll never be the best, they'll always be second fiddle. Same goes for VW. The people in control just don't give a damn about being competitive. VW/Audi have over-extended themselves, buying into Bugatti, Lamborghini, and Bentley took to much money and to much attention away from the models that really matter. And they're trying to keep Seat and Skoda afloat at the same time. They need to drop the bullshit and the brand engineering. SEAT and Skoda need to go away, as do the other three, and the group needs to focus on worldwide models to sell under the VW and Audi nameplates. There'd be some serious bitchslapping going on if I were in charge. Mitsubishi has been neglectful of their models for years, and now nobody gives a damn, at least here in North America. The only car they make anyone will give a second look is the Lancer EVO. And it's priced out of it's primary market, 20-25 year old men.

On 07 Nov 2003 01:49:01 GMT, snipped-for-privacy@aol.com (Steve Grauman) wrote: [snipped]

VW would have to wrestle that award away from GM for the Aztek debacle...

Couldn't agree more. Just another example of this is the Tuareg. Let's just compare the 2.5 TDI with the X5 3.0d and you've got a very sluggish car in the Tuareg. Acceleration is some 12.5 sec vs 8.8 sec for the X5, I mean that's two worlds apart. Same goes for handling and so on. If only X5's weren't so terribly ugly! I must say the Tuareg is a handsome shape - if nothing else at that. The 5l diesel Tuareg is simply a ripoff, and its engine is outdated by modern diesel standards - it doesn't even have "common-rail" and is thirstier than a Münchener Bierbauch :)

It's also certainly worrying to see a low-end Seat Cupra deliver more HP than your carefully chosen A4. Vag people show shameless disregard for their indigenous customers. Couple that with the worst service you'd ever been capable of imagining and you're just left wishing they made Xdrive available in every BMW line.

JP

"Steve Grauman" escribió en el mensaje news: snipped-for-privacy@mb-m12.aol.com...

themselves,

--snip--

LOL, I'll concede to that!

I agree, but the Touraeg still happens to be my favorite VW next to the Anniversary/337 and R32 versions of the GTi. The Passat is a fantastic car, but it's underpowered in 1.8T and V6 trim, and overpriced in W8 trim. The Jetta GLi and Wolfsburg additions are fun though. Despite all this, it's still pretty easy to see the handwriting on the wall. VW is heading backwards in time to the

1980s when no one would buy a damn thing they made.

I agree. But the 4.2 should have been the base engine and should be priced lower. They need a 4.5 with 355 or so Hp to fill in the gap between the 4.2 and V10, but it'd be way to expensive. VW wants $51k for loaded Toureag V8s. The one thing I can say is that the Toureag has a really fantastic cabin, awesome fit and finish, is very comfortable, and looks great.

It's a gorgeous, well built automobile which simply doesn't have the brand status to compete with the 7 series, S-class, or even the A8. Audi should've stepped in and put it off. It would've been better marketing to drop the 3.7 and 4.2 litre V8s, and make a new 4.5 litre 345 Hp mill the A8s standard powerplant. That model would sell.

I'd rather have the Pheaton tha the aging S-Class, but most of the world feels the reverse of that. And I'd rather have an A8 than either of them And the S-Class did just get a nifty new 7 speed tranny, I'm dying to drive it). It's to bad the 745 is ugly and uses that terrible iDrive system, otherwise I'd probably take that.

In article , Steve Grauman writes

I recall much the same being said of Lexus not too many years ago.

Everyone knew that Lexus was owned by Toyota, probably why they originally discounted it as a brand. That, and the fact that the original ES250, Lexus' first model was really just a Camry with leather seating. But Lexus had/has the advantage of it's own brand name and it's own identity. The Pheaton is badged as a VW, and therefore must share in the image projected by other VW branded products. There's nothing wrong with the Jetta, Golf, and Passat that couldn't be fixed, but none of them project the kind of luxury image that buyers looking into $80k cars want. I don't think someone seriously contemplating a Mercedes, BMW, Jaguar, or Audi would ever give the Lexus a serious look. But I think that there are a lot of people who would happily have the Lexus who wouldn't touch anything with a VW badge on it. Hell, Lincoln's LS V8 swamped the "old" 5 series in performance testing, did it help Lincoln steal away many 5 series buyers? I dn't think so. This is why the Audi branch is significant, this is why it exists, to pick up where VW rolls off, and to provide the luxury automobiles that VW doesn't have the kind of recognition to sell. And that's exactly why an A8 derived Audi luxo-barge badged as a VW is a bad idea.

My mistake then, I thought you were referring to the 325Xi and 330Xi. Although, the X5 is really just a 5-series SUV. Much like the RX330/Highlander are based on the Camry platform, and the Murano/FX35/FX45 are built on the Altima platform. In terms of off-road worthiness and all terrain versitility, the Toureag could eat them all alive. But it doesn't have the paved-road "real world" performance of any of the vehicles mentioned above. Truly capable SUVs are taking the wayside to crossover vehicles. And it probably would've been smarter for VW to design an SUV based on the upcoming Passat MKVI platform. But they always go their own way, part of why they're having issues. The Cayenne Turbo (and Cayenne S when equipped with the Turbo's air suspension) have some amazing on-road ability, I've seen video of them lapping race tracks and it's awe inspiring. But now we're talking $90,000 vehicles.

If you live in an area where the snow and/or rain get bad enough on a yearly basis to truly need AWD, than you're probably better off with a real SUV, or at least an AWD crossover than a car with AWD. That way you get the extra ground clearence to help move through streets covered in deep snow or flodded with rain water. Subaru's Forester 2.5XT offers fantastic performance and versitility with "SUV-ish" ground clearance at a great price. But it looks and feels cheap inside and I fear won't hold up over time.

Steve Grauman wrote: ...

The interior, probably - but not the car and engine. Anyway, I have stated for years that VW should offer a (perhaps slightly raised*) AWD Jetta Wagon in the US. It would compete well with the Forester, and as a VW first, could even be offered at a lower price. Think three engines: a beefed up 1.8 or 2l turbo, the new 2l or larger TDI, and the VR6 of the RS32.

- D.

(*) If I recall correctly, the Jetta wagon is already higher (~5") than most VWs. Raise it by just an inch or so, and you are competitive with most SUVs while maintaining great handling.