This has been a traditional perspective of doing business in China.
Although capable of quality manufacture, it did not always happen, but
prices were quite low.
China is moving toward a free market society. 60-70% of the GNP is now
attributed to the
Prices are beginning to be based on global factors now, such as the price of
oil, steel, etc in the global
economy. The false economy allowed by a synthetic exchange rate is
beginning to break apart.
The Communist party is still in charge, technically, but the basis for them
remaining in charge is perhaps
One thing that you can bet on, there will be change, and American industries
are not always ready, or
prepared, to respond quickly and correctly to changing situations..
I usually am pretty good natured.But I read or hear shit like this and it
really sets me off. So I suggest you GFY and then buy a one way ticket to
where you think the technology is better, and don't let the door hit you in
the ass on the way out.
It is a fair point...We Americans do have some things that are
copied.....for example, movies,
Cars are not in the list...We have bragged about our superiority for so long
that we have
begun to believe we are invincible...We arent.
I'll put it in simpler terms for you, don't let the front door hit you in
the ass on your
way out. I've yet to figure out why people who do nothing but bitch about
how lousy everything is here, and how much better everything is any where
else don't pack their bags and move to one of those any where else
The US was not made great through complacency. The US was made great by
people asking "how can we do this better?" The US auto industry,
however, once arguably the world's best, was made mediocre through
Perhaps we should spin off a state or two for all the "love it or leave
it" idiots to move to where they can wave the flag and defend the status
quo until they're blue in the face and meanwhile the rest of us can get
on with things.
replace "fly" with "com" to reply.
It wouldn't be an issue Nate if they wanted to work to make things better.
They don't, they never will accept anything made in this country by an
American corporation as being a good buy, and can't stand the labors of
their fellow Americans.
The so called gap between American cars and Japanese cars is gone, in
reality it never existed. The fact that junk like Mitsubishi and Hyundai
are on the road says it not about quality, its about price, and miss
perceived value. For 30+ years I made a very good living with grease under
my finger nails, paid for a house, raised a family doing it. I never saw a
day where I didn't work on a as many foreign cars as Americans, not one.
And I have worked on just about every brand on the road including Rolls
Royce and Bentleys. What I did notice is the model years difference,
seldom an older Japanese car, but a steady flow of everything year wise
from mid 60's to the mid 90's for the American cars was coming through the
shop when I hung up my wrenches. Daily drivers, not weekend cruisers. And
I see the same things on the roads daily now, a late 70s early 80's anything
Asian on the road is a rarity, and mid 80's to early 90s are not common
sights, and road salt isn't an issue down here in the sunshine state.. I
don't see foreign car dealerships with no repair facilities, yet to hear the
hype from the media and from people like "his" and "who" foreign cars never
break down. I noticed that Aldata and Mitchell all of a sudden don't have
the recall and service bulletin lists available to non subscribers for Honda
and Toyota and their subsidiaries. The last year I was able to do a
comparison was 2005, and Ford's worst car, the Focus had fewer recalls and
service bulletins than Acura's flagship the 3.5RL, or Honda's Accord which
had almost twice as many. The recalls, only an emission sticker missing on
the Focus, fuse box problems with a fire hazard on the Acura and Honda, and
side air bag issues, as well as drivers side air bag issues on the Hondas.
. The Ford 500 AWD, 2WD, the Crown Vic, and the Taurus had no recalls that
year, and half as many service bulletins. I originally dug this up for
discussions on a ford group last year, or I would have the Chevy numbers
handy as well.
And its not just current models that are gone, everything is gone for
Toyota, Honda, Nissan, Acura, Lexus, and Infiniti. Now then as I spent a
good chunk of money over the years with Mitchell manuals, I asked my old
sales rep why? He danced all around but finally the gist of what I got is
it was pull the info off the sites, or loose the ability to have it for pro
I figure maybe it had something to do with things like Honda's on going as
in 7 years worth of problems with rear suspension arm failures, or Toyota's
issue with ball joint failures across its line up, or the rear hub bearing
failures from the late 90's all the way up to 2004, or all the vehicle fires
they had with the Toyota Mini van, they finally recalled all of them, gave
the owners a couple hundred dollars towards a new Toyota and then crushed
them.. Nissan has sunk so low Renault has their hooks in them. Last
American company Renault did this to doesn't really exist anymore, That was
Mack Trucks, now wholly owned by Volvo, Renault milked what they could out
of Mack and then sold what was left.
Then there are the design and look issues. One of my favorites, GM's
Avalanche. Ragged on as a horrible design, butt ugly etc etc etc( and
rightly so it is ugly). Honda comes out with a copy, the Ridgeline and its
all ooo's and ahh's Lexus has been copying Mercedes 'lines" for years.
Toyota's copy of the 69 Mustang in 77 was so blatant I never understood why
Ford didn't sue.
Have the American auto makers missed the mark a few times or moved too fast,
or too slow , yes.
My favorite, the Vega was way too far ahead of its time. The engine design
was ingenious, but the average American car buyer's mindset was still 1955
when it came to maintenance. Sadly too much recycled steel was used in the
body and the re-smelting process wasn't so good, so rust was a major issue
the first four years, but then Ford and Chrysler suffered the same problems
with many of their vehicles those years, but none of them rusted out faster
than a Honda Civic, or a Toyota Corolla, or Datsun F-10s
Paterson Publishing got 320 hp out of the Vega engine, with out turbos,
super-chargers, fuel injection or Nitrous Oxide. 320 hp out 2.3 liters.
Actually 2 liters because they sleeved the block. Not to shabby for 1977
when they did it.
There have been some down right nasty things too, Chevettes, Escorts,
Festiva, the K-car line.
I can appreciate the design of the 240 Z, and its subsequent models the 260
and the 280, but everyone seems to over look at how the rear diffs fell out
of them literally. If it wasn't for the little datsun hustler p/u trucks,
my beloved S-10's might not have come to be. Datsun sold the shit out of
them, but you never see one today. S-10's are every where.
See my beef is with the damnation of anything American, and the
glorification of everything foreign.
Good post! The S/T trucks were good for their time up until they dropped
TBI then they were like working on PITA Fords... The last Datsun I seen,
which more than a decade ago, was being held together with coat
hangers... I almost forget these things existed for as fast as they
I'm ready to, as soon as I see one. e.g. I am ready to admit that GM
has the light truck thing down pat. Unfortunately, I don't buy light
trucks, I buy cars.
Spoken like a man who has never driven a Japanese, or better yet German
I'll give you Mitsubishi (every car a POS save for the Eclipse,) but
Hyundai? AFAICT they are about even with GM in terms of reputation
with the general public, and they have quite impressively brought up
quality without raising price too much since their intro into the US.
They have a great warranty, are inexpensive, and everyone I know that
has one made in the last 5 years or so loves it.
I don't see many American cars that old on the roads either, what's
Asian: Datsun 510 sedan, ate head gaskets for lunch, and snacked on
universal joints in the independent rear suspension, Stuck in a Hyundai
Sonata for 2 weeks in 2004, had 6,000 miles on the meter when I rented it.
I've driven model A's that handled better, and the engine sounded like a
thrashing machine at 70 mph, passing trucks made it squirrelly as hell.
Only good thing is I wasnt paying for the rental.
German cars: 74 Mercedes 300SEL, while stationed there for 4 1/2 years, rot
bucket, hydraulic clutch issues, wiring problems(made me wonder how the
cabbies stayed in business as the 280 and 300 series seemed to be their car
of choice),72 Simca 1500 Special, lousy oil system, and a hardened piece
of carbon instead of a throw out bearing, but held the road great, nice
interior, weird feature, 5 spd manual on the tree, Simca mid engine
Bagheera, not a bad ride, capable of running the autobahns with the best of
them, and this was when they didnt have speed limits except in the built up
areas. 71 Ford Escort Mk I, 1.3 litre engine, rear wheel drive before the
Americans ever heard the name, bare bones econo box, Opel Admiral, bought
soley to aquire the 283 small block and 5 speed tranny in it for my 73 Vega
GT Wagon. I lived there from early 1976 till late 1980. Did you know that
in 56 Opel had a car that was about a 1/2 size copy of the 55 chevy, the
Opel K-40. service members loved it, but they were rare when I was there.
Rust is not tolerated on cars, its grounds for failing the annual
inspection, an inspection that makes one in California look like a joke.
Family owned before I went in the service, a 69 Opel Kadette wagon, ecno
box, nothing spectacular about it, heater stunk, lights so so, ate brakes.
Engine gutless, but ran well, sloppy shifter on the 4 speed.
English cars: MG Midget, gutless wonder, but amazing leg room for such a
small car, MGB another gutles wonder, both with weak engines, only three
main bearings. Triumph Spitfire, loved the look, the handling, same lousy
engine and wiring as the MGB. 74 Jensen Healy MK II 2.0 Lotus engine, 5
speed(not an over drive box), this one I should have kept, run like the
dickens handled well, body rot an issue in door sill areas which were
structural compnenet of car, and of course a lousy wiring system, but any
one who worked on English cars knows all about Lucas the Prince of Darkness,
why do English men drink warm beer, because Lucas manufactures the coolers
too. Did you know that Rolls switched to using Delco electronic ignition
systems and Fridgidare AC systems in the late 70's. I've driven many Jags,
love the early models, hated the junk of the 80's.
Also took care of an MG TD for a gentleman for years, I think the Morgan was
a better car.
Sunbeam Imp, fun car, king pins went to hell, sold to a guy who raced it on
ice for three years in upstate NY.
How can you rate Mitsibishi a POS, and then rave about the Hyundai, its the
same drive train between them for years The Mitsibishi Precis and the
Hyundai Excel were the same car. Both of them suffered from soft
crankshafts, the keyway groove would waller out and then let the bottom
timing belt gear move almost 20 degrees. But the media never reamed them
for such issues, or the cover up of defects across the mitsi's line up of
cars, and especially the medium duty trucks, be very afraid when you see a
Fuso in the rear view mirror, they have had problems with the stub axle
snapping of the spindles, and hub bearing failures. Mitsi/Hyundai/Chrysler
world engines, you cant rave about one and ditch on the others, they are one
and the same.
I do see them on the road ever day.some like one customers Butterscotch 71
rag top Cougar 351 Cleaveland I would love to have. she'll drive it till
she dies, 12 years ago in '94 we pulled the four speed and put a C-6 in it
for her, at 60 years old she was tired of shifting it in our lousy traffic.
She kept all the parts. My neighbor just parted with his 72 Buick 225,
gave it to his grandson, wont last long, all ready has a few dents now. The
number of late 60's early 70's chevys I cant count, Corvairs, Chevelles,
Novas, Impalas, Caprice, 1/2 trucks the entire line. and 80's models are so
common you sometimes forget they are all 20 years or better old. The Chevy
Celiberty/Olds Cutlass Ciera Wagon bounced back and forth with the Crown
Vic/Mercury Grand Marquis as the number one selling vehicle in Florida for
10 years, untill GM dropped the line, and the ball by not coming out with a
replacement wagon, and some times it seemslike they are all still on the
See another flub, Ford Focus wagons selling like hot cakes, where is the
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