U.S. Auto Workers: "Wot Happened?

Pushed by people like George Bush!

Have you ever heard of overtime you ignorant son of a bitch?

So you don't mind paying people with technical skills to tighten bolts?

How do you know the posses real skills, and how do you know they have a real education?

Why don't you go tell that to one of those beer-bellied slobs, you chickenshit son of a bitch!

Sorry, its has nothing to do with globalization. Read and economy book or two. If this was globalization the Japanese would be getting killed. Especially considering they are right next door to China. Yet they are not.

This is about greed and power. Greed so strong these folks will bite their own hands to get the dollar in it. Power so high these will higher cousins, brothers, and friends instead of qualified personnel.

Thats what I hear from engineers. Not withstanding, your still an ass hole.

You know, I hate when someone "highers" an underqualified person for a job. I mean, at least "higher" the right person.

Put down the economy book, and pick up a second grade english book, shitdick.

Perhaps you better start turning over the items your buying from Japanese

corporations and look at where they are actually manufactured. Wednesday

they closed the Tokyo stock exchange 20 minutes early, reason given was

the computer system was being over whelmed, more likely because the

exchange had dropped 464 points. Sony, Panasonic, Pentax to name three big

ones have been off shoring to china for some time. Mitsubishi has as much built

in Korea as they do in Japan. And Mitsubishi is in so much hot water over the

dangerous junk they have been selling its down right scary seeing one of their

products on the road next to you. Especially their medium duty trucks

It tickles me to no end hearing about the workers who lived ate and slept the

corporation, the emperors replacement, being on the same receiving end the

American manufacturing workers have been since the late 60's. The japanese

corporations are abandoning their workers in record numbers for cheaper labor in china.

The only reason there are japanese manufacturing plants in the US is because they were

afraid the import door was about to be slammed in their face, coupled with the japanese

worker demanding higher wages to the point that wages plus transportation costs made

it "economically" viable to manufacture here especialy when the podunck places they built

bent over and applied a generous amount of K-Y Jelly to get them to build there. If

GM or Ford tried to get the goverment to build them training facilities, pay the wages of

both the trainies and the instructors, the storm the voters would raise would make

all the hurricanes of 2005 combined look like little dust devil. But Toyota seems to have

no problem with the people giving them everything they want and more.

I will give the nips some credit tho, I'll bet there will be far fewer china manufactured

cars in Japan then there are American cars sold in Japan.. They are the kings of

protectionism, right in front of the Germans. The average american on the other hand is to damn

dumb to cover his own assets.

I'm sure the average Americans you are talking about, are the ones that buy Japanese and Chinese Automobiles and other products.

The biggest problem is our government is allowing these products to enter the United States, so these cheap people can buy them.

I was listening to Sean Hannity on the radio today, and I couldn't believe it, but he said he has always bought American made automobiles, and alway will. He said his wife bought a foreign auto and they got in a fight about it.

Sean Hannity says he buys American to help American workers!

So, just where do I buy 35mm digital SLR, 35mm lenses?

Hardly cheap stuff.

Okay, but just remember, this is NOT a partisan issue. Both parties are 100% sold out on globilization. In American politics, there isn't another position other than globilization. There are a lot of ignorant people who will claim that only one party or the other is in favor of it. Ignorance. Complete stupidity.

Don't you guys remember NAFTA? Democrats were for it, Republicans were for it, and Perot, running as an independant, was whining like a turbocharger. What party produced the famous line "You hear that giant sucking sound?" That's right it was the NONE OF THE ABOVE party. It was the outsiders. Democrats won and put NAFTA in, but the republicans would have done the same.

In 04, Dick Gephart offered to run on an isolationist platform in the primaries, and the Unions didn't even vote for him.

We, as a nation, have no one seriously offering to lead us into isolationism. Don't be ignorant about this. That is not where we'll be heading, no matter who leads.

Clinton was for it not the democratic party. Clinton bought votes from the democrats with pork barrel projects.

The same thing happened recently with CAFTA, 15 democrats deserted the party and voted with republicans to pass CAFTA.

This whole mess can be blamed on Bill Clinton, and democrats, that think more of money that they do of their country.

Not even remotely wrong! Japan's autoworker's salaries don't even come close to half of their American counterparts. They produce "Japanese cars in the U.S. because it's cheaper here" is not a byproduct of autoworker's salaries, but a direct result of import tariffs and "Fair Trade" policies imposed by the US so we can compete. Japanese cars are *assembled* in the US for the sole reason to get around these unfair taxes an tariffs that would be added to the car once it hit the shore.

Yes, I agree Detroit had it easy with unfair Union protections for unskilled and overpaid laborers and the auto industry as a whole basked in all the protectionism from the US government to keep them afloat. There is no way in hell that you or I can afford to buy American made products like TVs or clothes because other countries like China are paying slave wages if they are paying wages at all.

Troll or not he does bring up some very valid points. Maybe now these overpaid workers will get a taste of reality when they have to get a job at Home Depot for $12 an hour telling people what aisle the wax rings for the toilet are in. As for the same old boring overpriced garbage Detroit is putting out every year, they will now need to get their act together. Welcome to the "New World Order" and the "Global Economy" and learn to live with it.

Rita

transportation

What's an American auto? I have three Fords made in Mexico, one made in Canada, and a Nissan made in Tennessee.

It sounds to me like the Nissan is the American one.

Honda Accord has the majority of its parts build in the US as well. Its not just *assembled* here. Its a full US car in every respect except the OEM. I agree they get around fees like this.

Unfair with respect to what? Certainly not with respect to the bilking done by ownership and management. They are and have been even more overpaid.

Well what do you think happens as a result of US protectionism of auto industry? What is US protectionism anyway? We take our tax dollars and pay our own wages? Certainly thats got to hurt other US industries that are in effect subsidising the underperforming auto industry (or any other protected industry).

Tarrifs? So we take a piece of profit from each imported car. Obviously this is wonderful incentive to the profit receivers to import MORE cars. Might as well give the US govt, stock in foreign automakers.

Besides that, trade will always be balanced. Either through debt, or harm to other industries. You should recognize the dominance of foreign electronics as being related to the tarrifs on other foreign products.

A country can only buy from foreign countries as much as foreign countries buy from it. Else there is a trade deficit, which can't last forever until balance is returned one way or another. (today this facade of balance comes through Asians purchasing of US debt)

Welfare is welfare. Same results on every level.

Post makes few valid points. Its full of sophistry. Blame the powerless.

Bill Clinton was smart to pass NAFTA because by the time NAFTA arrived, Mexico and Canada were already headed toward being irrelevant. So he really didnt do anything.

Global economy is right. More than anything though what it does is makes US companies have to compete harder with other US companies. Ford and GM dont just need to be better than Toyota, they need to be better than Toyota by as much as IBM is better than its foreign counterpart. (Given trade is immediately balanced.)

Why should IBM or any other US company help auto companies through US tax protectionism when in fact IBm is in competition with auto companies for foreign revenue?

We need good leadership much more than any change in workers. I actually Like Bill Ford being in control. I have a feeling he cares about his company (not necessarily people) and will try to make it right. He may or may not have the skill to do it.

but where do the parts come from?

I agree with you on your point though.

TM

I agree with the original poster. Why in gods name should an unskilled worker get 65k a year for turning a screw? A monkey could be trained to do the same thing. I laugh when ford lays off unskilled workers because they are no longer worth their rate of pay(and never were). If unions weren't such top management ball busters, maybe this never would have happened. I laugh when globalization slowly inches its way into the US, especially in the auto market which has been pampered by the US government for decades. I just wish I could be there to see the faces of these 'workers' when they realize what they are really worth when they have no valuable skills(they never had to worry about it before) and no degree. Have fun working at a retail outlet for

Assembled in America, is different then built in America

If it hadnt been for the uproar the Mustang clubs raised the late 80's the Ford Probe mazda built piece of shit would have had the Mustang badge on it. Chrysler has been in bed with Mitsubishi since the

70's. Easy to spot Mitsi powered Mopars, their the ones doing duty as mosquito control vehicles. You want American, my Caviler, and every other model with the 2.2 ltr engine and 4 spd automatic transmission made in Tonawanda NY. The only 2 other places the engine/tranny is built is the plant in Tenn., and in Kiaserslautern Germany. None of the German engines are used in US cars. So far the little bugger has been a good vehicle. we put 45,000 miles on it last year, no problems at all. It aint a rocket ship, but it can get out of its own way right handily. She was assembled in Ohio. V-6 engines are getting dicey, expect to see Buick V-6 being made at Buick plants to start appearing here. On side note, Buick number one selling car in china. Problem is only buicks built there are being sold there. Speaking of Ford, RIP Windsor engines. Will give ford and Chrysler some credit tho, the new Mustang is sharp, the new Challenger coming out is absolutely beautiful. The Camero, well, side view is "ok", the tail is pretty good, but that nose, is ugly as sin, and reminds me of the mid 70's toyota celica gt, remember the one that looked like a 2/3rds 68 mustang fast back with it's "smiley face"grill? I am beginning to think GM hired all the un-employed AMC designers.

Whitelightning

Another one to damn dumb to realize his wages are being paid for by the services those manufacturing jobs wages buy. I am willing to lay a wager that anathrax wouldn't last two shifts in a plant, and that's only if he could be trained to do the job, and that's a mighty big if in itself.

The only real profit I now of is that which is made by taking something of lesser value and making something of greater value from it. Everything else is secondary profit dependent on the funds generated from the first.

Whitelightning

Your sentence makes no sense. First i never told you where I work. Second of all Factory work isn't hard. If it is, it is reflected in the wages that are payed. However they are nowhere close to the inflated salary of 65,000 a year. How are my wages being paid for by the services manufacturing job wages buy. That sentence makes no sense, please elaborate. I get paid wages by my employer, I do work that brings value to the company I work for, and the wage I get payed reflects that. I don't get overinflated wages that I dont deserve because unions are worthless and will all go under within the next 20 years.

"The only real profit I now of is that which is made by taking something of lesser value and making something of greater value from it."

Beautiful theory, totally undermines neoclassical economic theory, but whatever. Sounds like a pissed off blue collar worker who is uneducated, ranting about their lack of job skill. What your referring to is the manufacturing industry, turning raw materials into finished goods. Wow your a genius. Ever heard of the service industry?

Hey, Mexico and Canada are also in America :)

Do you have a particular reason to be so hostile to the labor force? You really are dumping on them. Is management overpaid as well? Or do you feel managements wages are worth the results? Or do you feel the management overpayment (if you think there is one) is not as harmful to the companies?

My personal opinoin is the Unions wont negotiatiate in good faith as long as management is pulling in million dollar bonuses while simultaneously trying to tell the union the company cant afford their wages and benefits.

I think the union will accept cuts before death, but I doubt they can be convienced the company is dying when they see the $$$ flying around.

And who pays your boss the money he uses to pay your wages? Let me guess he has a money tree in his back room and just goes picks it off .

Again where does the money come from to pay someone in the service industry? lets look at GM. GM makes a car, sells it. Pays workers wages. Hires a service company to transport its vehicles to dealerships. Buys parts to manufacture more cars. Hires yet another to bring parts to its manufacturing plants to build more cars. Transportation company pays its workers, who in turn buy cars, pay doctors bills, hire CPAs, get hair cuts, hey those are all service industries. The parts manufactures sell their parts to GM. Pays its workers out of the profits. Guess what they hire service industry workers. Those workers decide to buy houses, another manufacturer, developer pays contractors, masons, etc out of the profits from the manufacture and sale of homes, who in turn spend it with workers in the service industries, as well as manufacturers.

Not one for liking movies as a source of knowledge or wise sayings, but college instructors teach economics, and the only good line tom cruise ever had came from the movie "Cocktail" when he told his professor if he really knew anything he would be a CEO for a major corporation pulling down 7 figures, instead of a college professor earning 40k a year. Those that can, do, those that cant teach. And they always have to make things sound 10 times more complicated than they really are.

Blue, collar, not quite, I work in the IT field supporting computerized POS and inventory control sytems running on Windows platforms, and about 7 different POS software platforms covering the west central coast of Florida. Before benifits, about 57K last year, so cash, I am in the Ford auto worker's range of pay. I would much rather do what I do for my wages than what he does. My working conditions are better, a hell of lot less dangerous, and a hell of a lot less strenuous. On the flip side, he has way better hours than I do, better medical, and a better retirement plan. But blue collar roots run deep in my family and my wifes, members of which bleed in the streets to form the unions that improved the working mans life, and as such yours as well. Daily those improvements are being chipped away at all the while people like you applaud.

Me thinks your major issue is those factory workers make more money than you do. The people you should be most pissed at aren't the workers, but the upper management, the ivory tower residents, and many share holders who care a tinkers damn about the long term, only the here and now. There isnt a CEO out there that is worth the millions they get paid. What does Walmarts CEO do that is worth $22 million dollars a year? or how about United Health Groups CEO, $58 million last year, plus $114,

552,832 in stock options cashed out last year, with almost.$140 million more to excersise from previous years(and people wonder why health care is so high) Lawerance Johnson, CEO Albertsons, $13.25 million, company was disolved this week. William Clay Ford raked in $22,185,692 last year, plus he cashed out $5,326,527 in stock options and has another $16,150,975 in unexcerised options. His wages before unexcercised options would pay the wages of over 400 of Ford's workers. There is the real greed, but you begrudge the person who makes that possible a lousy $65,000 a year including benefits.

Whitelightning