NYC Auto Show: Chrysler Prez arrives on stage in butt-ugly Fiat

I wouldn't be caught dead driving that car if you paid me.

Nothing Fiat makes would be anything other than a laughing stock in North America.

You know what I don't get?

Daimler still owns 19% of Chrysler. Daimler has a bunch of small cars.

Why aren't we hearing about any deals to bring THOSE cars here to North America and badge them as Chryslers? They'd be much more attractive than these ulgy Fiat things.

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Wed Apr 8, 2009

NEW YORK ? Chrysler President and Vice Chairman Jim Press said Wednesday the government's May 1 deadline for the automaker to complete a deal with Fiat allows "ample time" to reach a definitive agreement that is key to saving Chrysler from bankruptcy.

"We prefer having a shorter timeframe to get through this period, get all the questions out of our minds, and get back to business as usual," Press said during the first day of media previews at the New York International Auto Show.

He surprised reporters at Chrysler's news conference to unveil a new Jeep Grand Cherokee by arriving on the stage in an iconic Fiat 500 subcompact. The 500, one of the Italian automaker's most successful models, would help fill the void of small vehicles in Chrysler's lineup if Chrysler survives and brings Fiat cars to U.S. showrooms by 2011, as planned.

"Don't you think that this would be a perfect car to get around New York City?" he told reporters. Shortly after, the 2011 Jeep Grand Cherokee rounded the stage's corner and ascended a series of steps onto the stage.

The vehicle, which will be 11 percent more fuel efficient than its predecessor, will go on sale early next year.

Press said Chrysler has been aggressively moving to reduce costs while still unveiling new vehicles. The company has plans to introduce eight new vehicles in the next 18 months.

"We realize we have a responsibility to the American public," he said.

Press said Chrysler has been having a "constructive dialogue" with Fiat. The Italian automaker's chief executive, Sergio Marchionne, flew to Detroit on March 30, the day the Obama administration announced Chrysler and General Motors Corp.'s restructuring plans were insufficient and set strict deadlines for the companies to reach new goals or face bankruptcy.

"At this point in time with Fiat, we don't see anything that would be an impasse or a deal breaker," Press said. "We've had a constructive dialogue going, a cooperative dialogue with all the stakeholders, and we're hopeful that we'll be able to achieve the goals."

He said the company is progressing under the assumption that bankruptcy will not be required.

"We're pursuing the deal with Fiat assuming that a bankruptcy would not be the favored option. It wouldn't be in the best interest," he said. "Obviously you can't rule anything out, but we're working full speed, 24 hours a day to achieve the alliance and get our viability plan approved."

The government has said it will continue providing short-term aid for Chrysler while the Auburn Hills, Mich., company works out a deal, but Press said Chrysler hasn't needed more than the $4 billion the government provided earlier this year.

"We've been assured that if we need additional short-term aid, it's available from the government," he said. "Right now we're OK at this point in time."

Press declined to comment on reports that banks that lent Chrysler $6.8 billion in 2007 are resisting efforts to convert most of the automaker's debt to equity.

"We've got a lot of discussions going on with a lot of stakeholders, a lot of balls in the air," he said. "Those discussions are going on right now."

Reply to
MoPar Man
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Fiat cars ugly?

Personally I find some of the Fiat-branded cars bland-looking, but...

Try Alfa Romeo

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Unfortunately the website itself is rubbish, being overloaded with graphics.

The UK site is not much better:

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Try this Swiss site

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Or Australia

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DAS

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Reply to
Dori A Schmetterling

My question still stands.

Mercedes has several small car models that we never see here in North America.

Daimler still owns 19% of Chrysler.

If Chrysler is in dire need of an instant small car model, then why the hell isin't several Mercedes models being considered?

The Mercedes brand has way more cache than Fiat does.

Reply to
MoPar Man

I agree with your question... :-)

But among the smaller Mercs you might find something less than attractive-looking, too, e.g. B Class. I have sat in one. Very comfortable and, for the size, quite spacious. But sooo bland... (and I am a Merc fan...)

Is this not sold in NA already?

Of course there is the A Class, quite nice (though I don't like sloping noses where you can't see the end, also in B Class) and the Smart. Would anyone in (major conurbations of) NA buy one?

DAS

To send an e-mail directly replace "spam" with "schmetterling"

Reply to
Dori A Schmetterling

There has been much written during 2005 - 2008 about the A and particularly B class Merc's coming to the US. Lots of talk about a re-designed B version specifically for US, even powered by natural gas. Main problem seems to be the US-Euro exchange rate making the B too expensive for the US market. Maybe that's changed within the past 6 months.

Apparently the B's have been sold in Canada since 2006 (or maybe 2005). No B model is offered on the US Mercedes website. It's written that the B will be introduced to the US in 2011.

The Canadian Mercedes website shows that only the 2.0 L engine is being offered for the B200 (turbo and non-turbo). The non-turbo starts at $29.9k, and the turbo costs $4k more.

Those prices are ridiculously high for what you get.

By contrast, the Chrysler Sebring starts at $23.5k, but is currently being discounted by Chrysler to about $22k. The base model has a 2.4l engine with VVT and automatic transmission.

The Dodge Calibre starts at about $16k (with discounts), has a 1.8L VVT engine and 5-spd manual transmission.

I don't see why Chrysler thinks it needs a small Fiat model, since it certainly won't be priced under $15k and it won't have an engine much smaller than 1.8L. In short, anything Fiat could offer will be priced similar to the Calibre or Sebring, and when the average buyer looks at the Fiat, Caliber and Sebring, they'll choose the Caliber or Sebring because you will simply get more car for the price, and you'll get pretty much the same fuel economy.

If Chrysler thinks Americans will buy Fiats, then why would the A and B class Merc's be any different? Except the price will be a factor.

This story isin't getting much press, but it helps to connect some dots:

----------- May 22, 2008

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McGuinty (premier of Ontario) met yesterday in Turin with senior officials at Fiat, the parent company of the famed Italian carmaker, for face-to-face talks on luring a major new plant here.

While Fiat-owned Ferrari and Maserati sell high-end sports cars in Canada and the U.S., the company's mass-market products ? Fiat, Alfa Romeo and Lancia ? have not been sold here for many years.

That's why the company is examining the possibility of a domestic Alfa Romeo factory to build cars for North America.

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This was long before the Fiat - Chrysler merger came to life. We don't see Alfa Romeo here in Canada, and really not in the USA either. In July 2006, Alfa Romeo said it will be returning to the US in late 2009.

Reply to
MoPar Man

You occasionally see the Smart in urban Canada. But the A class is not sold here.

You don't see all that many B class. Given its $30K+ pricing, there are dozens of alternatives out there that I would buy first. At that kind of price for a 134HP engine, people are buying it for the star on the hood.

Reply to
Brian Priebe

But the star doesn't even stand proud. It's just stuck to the grille... Makes the view out front the same as in any car.. :-(

Another reason I am not keen on the B and A, or the sucessor to my first-generation CLK Cab. The current one has a grille star. Some policy about having such stars on 'sporty' models. Might also be a leftover from the period when it was fashionable for passing vandals to rip the stars off the bonnet.

DAS

To send an e-mail directly replace "spam" with "schmetterling"

Reply to
Dori A Schmetterling

I meant the Smart specifically. Two front seats and plus space for a shopping bag behind... It's not really meant as a sole car if you have a variety of needs, especially if you don't live in a major city.

(I suppose the current Fiat 500 would be the nearest equivalent.)

DAS

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Reply to
Dori A Schmetterling

Mercedes cost too much. Ref the Smart and B200 in Canada.

Fiat has cars in the Yaris & Corolla size category, where Chrysler is weak. The Caliper and Sebring are very good value, but they are mid sized cars. My concern with the Fiat is leg room. I've had leg room troubles in many of todays smaller cars that are designed in countries with shorter people. The small VW Beetle was fine for me. My knee hits the steering wheel so I have to wrap my leg around the wheel, making it unsafe for me to drive them. I'm only 5'-11".

Reply to
who

Yes.

As I don't follow car prices, I didn't know how unbalanced they were.

So now, given that the consumer (in Canada anyways) can get into a Chrysler or Dodge for the $15-$16k price point, then does it _really_ matter what their size is? Does it really matter that the Sebring and Caliber aren't micro-car sized?

Are Fiat cars that much smaller?

And will they cost less, or more, than Chrysler/Dodges current low-end models?

It will take the better part of a year for Chrysler to re-tool to make Fiat-based cars. So that ain't gonna save Chrysler.

And if all they do in the short term is sell re-badged Fiat's, then that just makes Chrysler the middle-man in the chain - and Fiat doesn't really need a middle man.

This whole thing with Fiat is just garbage that doesn't make sense.

Even if Chrysler's and Dodge's low end cars aren't "micro" in size, their price is, and in the end that's what really counts.

Reply to
MoPar Man

Recall the "Little Nash Rambler" or the Metropolitan from the back of beyond?

Reply to
Jim Higgins

Absolutely. As long as there are people who want a subcompact, and aren't interested in something bigger even if it costs the same, they need a subcompact. Doesn't apply to me, and apparently not to you -- if I were in the market for a new car the Caliber is about the smallest I'd even consider. For other people, it's bigger than they'd consider.

A concrete plan to bring a Fiat-based car to market in a year might be enough to get the cash to survive that year, so it might. But...

Fiat desperately needs a middle man. They've been out of the US market for a long time; they have no dealer network. Chrysler and Dodge dealers selling rebadged Fiats -- or even just selling Fiats -- would look great to them.

I'll bet you're either an accountant or an engineer -- you're exactly right from the perspective of the car and the money. But not from the perspective of selling the car for the money.

Reply to
Joe Pfeiffer

Lots of arguments about Europe, ancient streets, narrow streets, small spaces, a lot of people crammed into not-a-lot of real estate.

That's always been a major point in the argument as to why different car types evolved in different parts of the world.

With today's modern cad/cam, computer-based design, Chrysler could put their own sub-compact chassis into production in the same time frame. Chrysler has shown sub-compact concept cars over the past 5 - 10 years, it's not like they don't know how to make them, or have any ideas on the drawing board.

So what's stopping Chrysler and Dodge dealers from becoming also Fiat dealers tommorrow? They don't need Chrysler exec's for that. Chysler (the corporation, not the dealer network) isin't going to make a lot of money being the middle-man, and I don't see why a middle-man is even needed.

Fiat sets up a shell company importing the cars into the US, and those cars go straight to Chrysler and Dodge dealerships. Now, if there's anti-compete clause in the contracts between Chrysler and the dealers, well that's another matter.

I'm not an engineer, but I play one at work.

Like I said above, we here in North America are not under the same size constraints that car consumers are in Europe.

Americans who buy a sub-compact are doing it based first on price, then second on fuel economy (engine size, vehicle weight). When you're first constraint is money, you inevitably spiral down to the sub-compact class.

I still say that if you have a $15k fiat vs a $15k caliber, and the engines are within .2L of each other in size, that an American will buy the caliber _because_ it's a bigger car.

And there's no way that any Fiat will be priced less than a Caliber.

Reply to
MoPar Man

My wife and I bought a new 2007 Caliber and find that it is the perfect size, and it is getting around 30-31mpg around town(using Mobil1 Advanced Economy Formula). It reminds me of the size of my 86 Lancer hatchback, that was a great sized little car, with the

2.5/automatic, got good mileage and was very reliable. Of course, my car is a bit larger, a 1941 Windsor 4 door/Fluid Drive-Vacamatic(Chrysler fans will know what that is) and gets around 18 mpg, but man does it ride smooth, and quality, can't beat it!

"What do you mean there's no movie?"

Reply to
<CountFloyd

It is a strange thing about Europe, it is more "rural" than the US, the cities are of course tighter in space and a lot of them date back to the medieval times, but in Germany, even the smaller towns can accomodate Caliber sized cars. In Italy, the other story. Towns are extremely crowded, but again, more people live in rural areas. I remember the Fiat 500 my step-father had, looked like a toy with wheels! Plus, if Fiat has not fixed their reputation for quality, then American memories of pre-rusted, unreliable cars, will kill Fiat.

Reply to
<CountFloyd

George Mason, president of Nash, wanted a small car that an American could fit into, he was a large man himself. The original Rambler, remember them in the old Superman TV series, was a roomy car that got great mileage and was on a 100" wheelbase. My mother had a Nash Rambler two-door wagon, mid-fifites, and I remember the gearshift sticking out from the behind the steering wheel, a knucklebuster when shifting from first to second! It was cute and stylish. Look at the plans that American car producers had for small cars, the Hudson Jet, a great little car, the Willys Aerocar, the Frazer that even Sears sold in its catalog, Americans just were, and are just too "iffy" in their buying habits. When gas is cheap, they go back to wanting huge cars, then bump gas to $4 a gallon, then they go screaming for small cars, no wonder the American car companies do not know what to make anymore!

"What do you mean there's no movie?"

Reply to
<CountFloyd

That will get resolved to the same answer in two ways: Our present government will make sure that oil gets over $4 (by starving the market of supply and, if that doesn't work well enough, by adding additional taxes to it), and they will also dictate to the car companies they now own what they will make.

Bill Putney (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my address with the letter 'x')

Reply to
Bill Putney

There's an easy way to give an American apoplexy; discuss slapping a couple of dollars tax on a (US) gallon of fuel...

DAS

To send an e-mail directly replace "spam" with "schmetterling"

Reply to
Dori A Schmetterling

Discussing it's not a problem. It's actually doing it that's the problem. If we could trust politicians to honestly handle the money instead of working it into redistribution of wealth shell games like they are tending to do, it might not be a problem. IOW the government's hidden "handling fees" are a little steep and result in a huge net loss.

Reply to
Bill Putney

Top posting is bad form for usenet Dori.

US Congress and Senate will never increase the federal gas tax or bring it anywhere near it is in Canada or Europe. They don't have the balls to do it.

The federal gov't might bring in a national federal sales tax, like Canada's GST or Europe's VAT. They'll have to do something if they ever hope to balance the budget or reduce the federal debt.

What I'm not hearing anything about is a winfall profits tax on the oil industry. That's where the prize is, and there's no downside for Obama or the Congress / Sentate to bring one in. And if Oil does go over $100 / barrel this summer, there will be increasing pressure for it.

The sky-high oil prices seemed to have no spin-off benefits for oil-rich states (unlike the situation for Alberta in Canada).

The US oil lobby (API) is running daily TV commercials on the 3 network news at 6:30 pm. They're pushing hard for more access to off-shore drilling and more drilling in environmentally sensitive places like Alaska. The oil industry knows that a winfall profits tax is coming unless they can bring more supply on-line to prevent oil from consistently saying over $100 / barrel. The oil industry is running those TV commercials because it knows it's lost influence in Washington now that the Bush's and Cheney are gone so they are trying to directly influence public opinion.

Reply to
MoPar Man

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