oil price in free fall

I hope you're right because the lesson fron the previous oil crisis sure wasn't, judging by the number of SUV's that were sold in the years after.

While everyone seems to believe we need to pursue alternatives, me thinks the Presidents announcement to lift the Executive Branch ban on offshore drilling had a lot to do with the price drop, since it started to drop the very next day.

Now if we can lonely get the Dims leadership in Congress to allow a vote by the Members we will see it drop even more. "We can't drill our way out" is BS. If we have more of our own oil we still not need to buy as much form those that want to control the price. Apparently there are more than enough votes to lift the ban, according to published reports.

Concur. In an open market such as ours, it cannot possibly work. It only "works" in a closed market such as the USSR, and even then it falls apart over time.

Our governer in teh '70s, Jerry Brown, tried to stop us all from driving and implemented massive carpool lane projects. All additions to adding lane miles to california freeways were curtailed or halted.

As a result, we have a horrendous mess, and people still don't carpool or take public transportation.

I did try that for about three years, and found it awful. I much prefer to drive myself, rely on my own schedule and listen to audio books on the drive.

I certainly don't miss the gas lines.

oil has been expensive in Europe for a long time and it has meant improvements have been made in trains and other public transport. A lot of people do not need a car anymore. There are even combinations of trains and car/truck/bicycle hire by the hour at the stations.

The problem is that it would never work in the U.S. Mass transit for major cities is already in place. The problem is that there are FAR more places than large cities that would never have coverage. The distances usually traveled are also MUCH farther than Europe.

Bingo - I lived in Germany for a year then Switzerland for three months. In neither case did I have a car. I was able to get by either hitchiking, using the trains and/or other local transport.

However, the distances travelled were *far* less than I'd need to travel here in the US.

After coming back from studying in West Germany (Tubingen), I thought I'd be a good green-party liberal and take the bus to university. I mapped out the plan and figured I'd be able to study on teh bus.

Turns out the busride for the 20-mile trip took me a little over two hours each way. By comparison, I could get there in about twenty minutes (it was

I did end up later carpooling with a buddy of mine. She had also studied in Germany (and now lives in Switzerland with her husband and two kids) so we were able to talk a lot.

Still, mass transit just isn't suited for most places. Unlike in Europe - where towns were created around central lines - we don't have many centralized locations.

Case in point - I work 21 miles from home. There is a metro train station a block away from my work. However, to get to it, and to get to work at 7:00, I'd have to hop a train from my house at 5:24AM, hope it got into downtown LA (30 miles away) by 6:11 on time, then switch trains to another line, take the 6:25 train from LA and hope to be at my next station at 6:45. Total travel time, 1:20 - then I have to walk about a half mile to my office.

Or, I could just leave at 5:30 - like I often do - take the freeway for twenty miles, and get to work at 6:00. Total travel time, 0:30, and I park in the first row of parking.

You have to design cities around the tansport system. If you design it around the car you will never have a good transport system. Design a good transport system first and you will not need many cars.

One reason we don't have the infrastructure is the automobile. I work 24 miles from home, a typical 33 minute drive. Fact is, if the auto was never invented or was never cheap, I'd be working closer to home and public transportation would be available. The automobile allowed for the suburbs to be built and for no allowance for trains to be made. It took 50+ years to evolve to where we are and would probably take twice that to devolve into a cluster of larger cities with mass transit.

The building that our company was in until recently used to employ 1200 people in its heyday into the 1950's. Most were locals and came to work on the (no longer existing) trolley car that ran up main street. The company eventually moved manufacturing south, etc. Those 1200 people, or their descendants, are now scattered and using their cars to get to work

You can at least take a 2 hour ride to work if you want. I'd have to walk the 24 miles as nothing exists between our towns, or even in the towns. I can't imagine what would have to be done to make it viable today.

It is an interesting study. As soon as Congress passes an antitrading bill for oil, the price starts to fall a bit.

Have we unnerved the traders? Maybe, a bit, but dont worry...they will be back in full force most likely.

Boone Pickens testimony before the Senate was interesting. He said, among many other things, that we are moving away from a petroleum fueled era and we need a bridge to get us to the next state of renewable energy. Like it or not, he is probably correct.

Partially true - In LA, they tried to use the trains but it just wasn't viable. Twenty years before the famed LA Trolly system gave up the ghost (and the rumors started flying about the tire industry colluding to remove teh trains), they were continually in the red and had to be government supported.

That may be. Of course, the auto has also opened up the ability for many to become wealthy, so we may have been stuck longer otherwise.

Heh - I don't think the auto is responsible for the suburbs but the suburbs wouldn't have been feasable much without it.

Keep in mind, my grandparents moved to the "suburbs" of Los Angeles in the

There are other alternatives as well. When I was a worker bee, I would work one day a week from home. I have staff members who do that now.

One way that can work is van pools. The last company I worked at bought and maintained vans for employee transport. These were white collar "professionals" and clerical. There was some cost charged to the employees using them. One employee would be the driver and keep the van at home. Seems there were about 15 of these vans up until about 10 years ago, each shuttling about 6-10 people. Some came from 30+ miles away. I only noticed 3 or 4 when I left a couple years ago. The driver might have had 1/2 hour added to his commute from picking up the others people in his area. The van pool was started sometime in '70's, when corporations still had a sense of community and actively looked for solutions to community problems. Companies in an geographical area working together could make this concept more efficient. It's not rocket science. Any complaint that it isn't "convenient" is answered simply with "Then don't join a pool. Get to work on your own." Van poolers always left work on time, because managers knew any petty bullshit in holding the poolers up would bring down the wrath of the management leaders who put the plan in place. Yes, there were actually "leaders" in corporations way back then. There were the usual petty complaints about sharing a ride with this or that person. BFD, use your own car or take a bus if you don't like it.

--Vic

Get real. Oil is more expensive in Europe because fuel, as well as vehicles, are heavily taxed to give the citizens the "FREE" social system benefits like "FREE" health care.

You do not know this county if you th>

oil has been expensive in Europe for a long time and it has meant improvements have been made in trains and other public transport. A lot of people do not need a car anymore. There are even combinations of trains and car/truck/bicycle hire by the hour at the stations.

Pickens envisions our over supply of NG as the answer to our effort to get off IMPORTED oil. What till he tries to build the thousand of miles of new NG lines. The environuts and the NIMBY nuts will kill that idea. If you doubt that look at what is happening in the effort to build new electric high voltage lines that we need. The reason we are burning off BILLIONS of cubic feet of NG every year at the wells and the refineries is BECAUSE we do not have the lines to distribute the NG.

I hope so. I can't imagine people buying oversized gas-guzzling cars and trucks anymore. I'm glad I don't drive one.

I also hope that this allows the US to get around to thinking about home-grown fuels more.

Well, they might. I would bet it would be fun to watch !!!!

I have a friend who makes a bunch of money this time of year. He goes over to a couple different lakes on the weekends and sets there, just waiting for the yuppies with the fancy boats to show up, and discover that that "little boat" they towed around with the BMW or Volvo suddenly became kin to the Titanic when they try to pull it out of the water...

His tow vehicle, 1 ton Dodge with a Cummins in it.

I'm all for it!

I say soybeans are the way to go. Between them, peanuts, coconuts, palm trees and whatnot, we could go way far with biodiesel.

Believe me, I'd love to stick a 6.5L or a duramax in my truck and run solely on bio.