More Ford cash for Jaguar

Jaguar S-Type & the Lincoln LS (and the Ford Thuderbird & Mustang) are based upon the Ford DEW98 platform. They are essentially identical under the skin, with displacements & tuning refinement differentiations. The only real difference is styling and interior content. The new Jaguar XJ (and soon the XK) is also based uppon the DEW platform. The DEW platform was designed in the late 80's and was obsolete when the S-Type & DEW were released in 2000.

From Ward's auto world back in '00: "T-Bird will be the third vehicle to be built off Ford's DEW98 platform, the underbody currently used for the Jaguar S-Type and the Lincoln LS. But Ford also plans to build an additional, bigger, Lincoln luxury car off the rear-drive platform to take on the Cadillac Seville. And work also has begun on a platform variant known internally as DEW98 Lite.

DEW98 Lite ditches the expensive double wishbone front suspension in favor of simple MacPherson struts - reducing costs for a future Mustang and Australian Falcon - desperately in need of a contemporary engineering base."

Here's the link.

You misread what I wrote, go back & re-read. Ford have pumped billions into dedicated Aston platforms and powertrains in an effort to compete with Ferrari. The results have been stunning, however they'll never make a dime on any of them. Aston sold 400+ cars in the USA last year, a sales record. for it's largest market. None of the money invested in Aston will ever be recovered, it's a plaything for the Ford family. Jaguar, has the potential to be a HUGE money maker, if managed properly. Ford lacks the specific commitment to Jaguar that could ensure the future it deserves.

Geoff Lawson privately called the S-Type his most embarrasing design. He simply said: "I did the best I could with the mess I was handed."

And a total sales dog, heading out of production next year. A total Ford c*ck-up despite nice styling by retro-maven J. Mays, whom Ford hired away from VW after he'd done the New Beetle. Ford's styling department was, and is continuing to be, a nightmare of timid bean counters who design cars based upon focus groups, not soul or talent.

Not a single Ford hand had a thing to do with it. C70 was designed by Volvo several years before Ford bought the Company. Volvo continues to succeed because they sell cars & make money and can thus keep Ford's meddling at bay.

Deisgned by ex-BMW exec. Ulrich Bez under the guise of ex-BMW exec Wolfgang Reitzle. Again, Ford had NOTHING to do with these cars.

Ford DOES have DIRECT involvement in Jaguar, and is destroying the marque as a result. Look, you can dislike my comments all you want, but it's simply a marketplace fact. Jaguar is losing billions, is selling at a rate HALF what was projected not three years ago, and has no viable, competitive product plan. Meanwhile, BMW, Lexus and Mercedes are setting sales recoirds each year, putting Jaguar farther and farther behind. Ther's one and only ONE reason for this: FORD MANAGEMENT SUCKS!!!

The only real hope for Jaguar is thjat Ford will sell it off to a European or Japanese Company. My bet is they'll close it up within five years.

Right again, Blake! The LS is a far better car for the money than S-Type. Or as Mike Dale, former President of Jaguar Cars North America quipped in 1998: "S-Type customers will be asked to pay an additional $10,000 for what in reality amounts to nothing but bullshit."

Thanks for that heads-up. I must admit, I am extremely surprised. I would never have suspected that the same chassis existed in the S-Type and Lincoln LS. I just researched the DEW98 based on your information; and the chassis sounds good. 50/50 weight, extensive use of aluminum, extreme stiffness, etc. I am surprised, but I would not say I am disappointed. The S-Type drives well. I don't dislike DEW98, apparently.

I must have misread it. I took it to mean you didn't like the Aston. I love the Aston - it is beautiful to behold. I don't expect it to be a money maker; though I agree with you that Jaguar sells enough units to make a profit. I see that Ford is trimming back the amount of plants, etc. So, they are addressing Jaguar. I think it is an iterative process. Keep in mind that the auto industry in general is really hurting.

I think they want to sell more Jaguars than Astons and GTs. IMHO, my 05 S-Type is an absolute pleasure to drive. I feel the same way about the Lincoln LS as well - it's an easy car to drive. I love the way my S-Type looks. That retro nose is what sold me on the vehicle. I like the interior, the pep of the 4.2 liter 32 valve V8 (though I want to find a way to remove the max speed limiter), and the only place I think the car is short is on braking. I looked around to see if I could add the Brembo system of the S-Type-R; but came up empty.

As disappointed as I am to hear that quote, I love the lines of my S-Type, I feel it drives decently (though nowhere near my 03 Z06), and the interior design is comfortable, reasonably well thought out, and everything including the map system work well.

It would be a shame to see the end of the Thunderbird. Very retro, and very nice. Some of the colors were a bit too "pastelish"; but overall I think that car is very nice.

BMW and Benz builds cars in USA. Building some of the vehicle lines in USA saves a bit of money compared to shipping overseas. As such, overall costs for those companies may be inexpensive compared to Jaguar; who does not make any of it's cars in USA. That might affect sales (just guessing). With regard to Jaguar bleeding money - weren't they bleeding money before Ford took them over? When I looked at buying the S-Type, I also looked at the MB E320, Lincoln LS, Lexus GS430. The Lexus and Lincoln were not that attractive to me, so I narrowed it to the Mercedes and the Jaguar. After driving both, I picked the Jaguar; which I thought was more comfortable for me and I liked the looks and layout of the interior a bit more.

I think Jaguar will be here forever. I hope they don't sell to a Japanese company. If they do, I won't buy another one.

BTW, thank you for taking the time to respond to me with that lengthy post. I appreciate the links and the information.

Ford has a fundamental problem: They can't build & sell cars pweople wanty to buy, much less at a profit. They are unfortunatel;y infected with a "muddle in the middle" mentality. They are bland, bean-counter driven culture that does everything it can to drive out the risk of inspiration-driven, emotional elements of design that people find in BMWs & Porsches, for example. A few years ago I watched a senior Ford manufacturing exec present profitability stats on every ford car line, and on average they lost over $1,000 on every car they sold. They made it up on trucks. That says a LOT about their management.

IMHO, Jaguar's future is hopless as part of Ford. Ford doesn't understand the luxury segment, they think BMW, Lexus and MB are bullshit and the customers fools. They want to make ridiculous profits per car so they bludgeon the designers to drive out cost, at the expense of the most basic table stakes in terms of content. In the end, the press catches on first and condemns the cars, or damns them with faint praise, then the public decides the cars are junk, so Ford management ratchets up the incentives, which destroys resale value, etc., etc. Meanwhile, for the same price one can buy a BMW with no question as to its pedigree, and no risk as far as residuals are concerned. I see no hope at all for Jaguar unless it's sold off. Manufacturing them in the US will only make it worse.

"Blake Dodson" wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com:

Focus??

I'm waiting for the Jaguar SUV :-)

Ford Exploader with a cute S-Type grill... LOL

Ron McGrice

"The Grim Reaper" wrote in news:1105808994.8f35fc38f792d6e3140f457761740020@teranews:

S-Type from Lincoln LS X-Type from Mondeo

I'll stick with my XJ6 Series II, 420G and Daimler limousine, thankyou. They all leak oil, have the odd "Lucas" electrical problem and were well know by the bugger who built them, Sir "Willy" :-)

Ron McGrice

Yes Stu, they used to have a magically aura; no longer. The 6 and 12 created beautiful music and did not need to rev high to scoot.

Hell, even Peugeot has thoughts to build a mans car now, but not Jag....

I reckon this has generated one of the most popular streams seen on this newsgroup.

Ford take note - We care about Jaguar and want the old prestige back.

Thanks to all who have contributed.

Stu

I would disagree with that statement.

My 1994 XJ40 has been the most reliable car I have ever owned. Nothing other than routine maintainance.

Richard H. Kuschel "I canna change the law of physics."-----Scotty