Hello all, I've been asked to ferry some 10 year old kids about after a party, but it seems I can't as the old beast is classed as a minibus. That means no sideways facing seats if I want to carry kids. If I take seats out to reduce it down to less than 10 seats then I can avoid minibus status. Has anyone been in this situation and, barring restrictions on carrying kids (more of a plus than a minus IMHO), are there any reasons for or against minibus classification that you've come across?
I don't need to, I just sit in lane 1 and the lorries overtake me!
I've hit another problem now, the DVLA are saying that because the truck's gross weight is over 3.5 tonnes then it can't be registered as a PLG vehicle, so it either has to be a goods vehicle or a passenger carrier, so if I want to put people in the back I have to register it as a minibus but once they're out, if I want to put a load into it for the return trip I have to first re-register it as a goods carrier... It seems that they don't think that a vehicle can be both a goods carrier and a people carrier at the same time.
Possibly a daft question. What breed of vehicle are you talking about? Maximum train weight or maximum vehicle weight?
I would think even a loaded 101 would be under 3500kg total gross vehicle weight. One way round the rules would be to have a large, permanent "luggage" area. Nothing says the driver's luggage can't be a ton or so in weight:-)
Would it? Not sure but I thought they could be heavy bastards.
Indeed, if I got minibus status then I could still throw a load in the back in the spaces between the seats, which is in fact the loadbed, like it is in a landy with bench seats on the wheel boxes. However I don't want minibus status 'cos it means that I can't carry any kids in the back, which I might want to do once a year or so (birthday party treat coming up, which is what prompted all this). But if I dodge minibus status then I have to register it as a goods vehicle, and so probably can't use any of the seats in the back for anyone..
I think speaking to various people on the phone at the DLVA isn't working, each one sings a different song, I reckon I'll have to take it to paper, with pictures of the rear of the truck and photocopies of the manual pages.
I wish I'd kept my mouth shut about the V5 being wrong now, but I needed to clarify the situation regarding the seats being used to carry kids. My sister has a lot to answer for!
Might do that, am going to probably remove some seats to avoid minibus status, and see if I can still use the remaining seats as seats. I suppose I could register it as a goods vehicle and just spent my time ferrying 12 seats around in the back as freight, all fixed down to stop them moving about ;-)
Gags aside, the issue is with being able to use the seats or not legally. Currently it's a grey area as the truck is neither goods nor passenger vehicle. Getting advice from the DVLA is just seriously unhelpful, they just seem to be making it all up as they go along.
Just about 2 tons as delivered, according to Land Rover figures. That gives you about a ton & a half of load. I've not owned one, though...
I'd not be speaking to DVLA in the first place, but VOSA enforcement officers. You can get hold of them through your local Goods Vehicle test centre. Be prepared for one more answer than the number of officers you ask, though. One of 'em usually reads the book afterwards & changes his mind...
You might like to have a word with the Duck Tours people. they're running vehicles of a similar size, with the added fun of certification for marine use.
formatting link
I'm not connected, but if you're near one of their operations, they may rent you one of theirs, which gets round the problem nicely. They've got a branch in Liverpool as well as possibly other places that I don't know about.
On the other hand, if it's strictly non-commercial, & you can prove the seats were original fitment, you may be able to get a class V certificate for it.
Had a similarly awkward problem and response from DVLA years ago, only resolved it by getting hold of Chief whatever he was at Bristol DVLA which apparently is where descisions are made ?
Can look up number if you like, bear in mind info is about 8 years old though !
That would be useful if you could, I think I'm going to have to write letters, all this telephone stuff is no good for complicated stuff where people contradict each other all the time!
At the time ( about 1999 ) I trailed back to the suppossed chief of all; when I said to him are you sure he said " I ought to be the buck stops with me "
DoT Bristol
MoT management scheme
0117 954 3200 ( General Office )
0117 954 3277 ( MoT Management Department )
I have not tried these since and the area code may be different; but good luck.
It may be a starting point to another trail if they have altered management structures !!
No, the current models are different, including the weights, they can weigh up to 5 tonnes as opposed to my 3.9 tonnes.
I'd rather try and get it right by the book, not much point asking the enforcement officers if they all read the rulebook differently.
DUKWs are a fair bit bigger than the pinz, it's about the same size as a modern range rover.
What's a class V, if you're talking about the MOT class, then it's currently on a class 7.
She of course will just think that I'm trying to wriggle out of helping her out, so not only has she got me into the shit, I'll bet you any amount you want that she won't talk to me for months!
That's part of the problem. We get it all the time in the commercial transport world. You've found out that DVLA do the same thing.
Not the one I was looking at, then. That one had 3 axles.....
Class V or 5, if that's the way they write it is for vehicles like preserved buses with more than 12 seats that may or may not retain the seats, but are never used for paying passengers. Things like playbuses or large converted motorhomes. Class 7 is light goods, which could cause problems if you're asking for a change of use. Seatbelt rules, rollover protection & the like then come into play.
The pinz 712M (what I have) has 3 axles, but is still only as large as a modern range rover, about 6 inches longer than my Defender 110, about as tall but about two inches narrower.
Well, I've used class 7 for MOTs, they've not asked about that at DVLA yet, it's another area of confusion for the truck, it needs either a class 7 or a class 5 depending on who you ask ;-)
Which is odd, because Class 7 is only for goods vehicles up to 3500kg Gross weight.... Class 5 would be more appropriate for the 14 seats, & looking at the spec, I'd personally prefer the class 5 ticket & classification. It would give you the option of carrying passengers or not, & if the seats are the original folding fitment, even your insurance company should be happy. Unless they've changed the rules & not told me, which does happen, you'd also be allowed in the outside lane. I drive either a full size mobile greenhouse or a series IIa LWB usually, so the outside lane isn't an option;-)
Then I doubt there is a way out if the GVW exceeds 3.5. My 101 is plg because though the plated weight is >3.5 the revenue weight in the V5 says 3.5. Also as she is under 2tonnes unladen she's classed as dual purpose and thus class 4, persuading the MOT place of this is the difficulty.
Blimey... Looks like it's for goods vehicles between 3 tonnes and 3.5 tonnes, not 3.9 tonnes like mine...
The issue here is that I've listened to the professionals, they're either all totally confused or are telling me to do the wrong thing in order to avoid a load of trouble! I suspect they might have been right..
I'll look at class 5 (private busses) but I don't yet know what implications that brings in, e.g. special licenses, seatbelt requirements etc.
MotorsForum website is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here.
All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.