Part of having a " luxury" car is being able to maintain it. If you can't afford the car you should be driving something more standard. Most people don't realize that luxury cars are expensive to maintain, provide good insurance, and pay taxes. Thats why they are called "luxury". Maybe it isn't time for you to be owning a luxury car. These are some of the same people who owe big balances on the credit cards and have no money in their savings account.
I concur. I'm not an elitist by any stretch of the imagination. People should just realize that luxury cars may be in a different market than they are. It's just a shame to see such a well engineered vehicle desecrated.
Here's the point to those that don't get it: Luxury cars are better than your standard cars because they're built with more expensive materials and/or technology. If you're going to put cheaper materials on them, then the standard cars are more comensurate of your budget.
Don't want to pay premium fuel for the LS400? I suggest purchasing an old Cressida or perhaps the Avalon. Don't want to put iridium plugs on the ES330? Then the V6 Camry seems more appropriate for your need.
Luxury cars shouldn't be purchased to boast it to your neighbors. It should be something you purchase when your income reflects it accordingly.
Interesting thoughts. But these are more relevant in a BMW or Mercedes forum. I bought a lexus for its lowest cost to own - incl. resale and repairs. If buying a car can be an investment, this comes closest. This forum is made of people of various types - old world luxury owners, smart buyers, penny pinchers and DIYers. Let people make their own choices on what and when to buy and dispose of.
No they're not. A Lexus ES300 is, mechanically, a Camry. An Acura is a Honda. A Lincoln is a Ford. That they sell them in different dealerships and put better interiors in them doesn't mean that the guy who does Camry oil changes can't do a Lexus oil change.
Lexus is calling. They want you to do commercials for them.
Lexus cars are TOYOTAS - same engine, same tranny... whats different? an extra coat of paint, better suspension, but over all, the Lexus brand is same as Toyota but maybe a little more cushy... yeah the SC430 is a stand alone, and so is the LS430, but over all, the ES330 has the same engine as the Camry... i am not sure why one would have iridium plugs... its just a scam...
and anyway, a luxury Japanese car is a little bit of an oxymoron... most people buy a Lexus because it is more reliable (they are made in Japan - except for the Rx330)... not really because its Luxurious... you buy a BMW, or Mercedes for a status... Lexus is no status symbol, it just means you are smart about reliability and want that extra comfortable ride...
I took my wife's ES330 to a Lexus dealer to have an error code cleared. The car was promptly driven next door to a Toyota dealer for the work to be done. What kind of statement was that? Does Lexus oil cost more? Is the drain plug harder to find?
It cost more to maintain my Ducati, that I can understand and live with. Why should it cost more to maintain something that is basically the same running gear as American Toyotas Camry?
I bought my wife a Lexus for the reliability, not to tell my neighbors that I had more money in the bank then them.
BTW, the error code was as BS code for the emissions that I was told should not have occurred. Also, I liked driving the car until the "learning" curve kicked in.
That's obvious. It doesn't mean that I can't express my opinion. It doesn't mean that I'm going to lobby to have a federal law mandate what I say either. People can read what I wrote and form their own opinions.
What you're talking about are some mechanical items they share. That's undeniable. What I'm talking about are the items that they don't share. Things such as the luxury appointments. Do you really think that the materials of the seats are equal? Do you think that the Nakamichi system in the Lexus ES will even bolt in to a Camry?
It behoove your budget to have the ES oil changes at a Toyota dealer. I'm not saying you shouldn't. With that in mind, it seems fatuous to me to purchase a GS430, for example, and go to Discount Auto parts for brake pads.
Lexus are no doubt Toyotas. Engines and transmissions are not similar but not exactly the same. The SC didn't used to be a stand alone. A derivative of the original was used for the Supra.
If you believe that iridium plugs are scams, this may be a bit over you but I'll attempt to edify you anyway. The smaller tip better ensures a better burn characteristic. This becomes more important as the pressure in the chamber rises such as high compression engines or boosted engines. Although most gains are seen in forced induction engines, there are minimal gains in normally aspirated engines and more significant gains on emissions especially as the mileage wears on as iridium tips are harder than platinum tips. The same was said of platinum tips when they came out over copper plugs. Don't take my word for it. Do some research.
I agree with you that Lexus is the better buy because they are made in Japan and so are the parts, if you can afford it. There are people who also think that it shows you have a lot of money (hence the status symbol). I don't care for it myself. I drive them because I like what they do for me, not to try to impress my neighbors.
I assume this post was the result of our many questions on how NOT to spend a fortune on our vehicles. I guess that what you're trying to say is that you're not worthy of a Lexus unless you have big bucks. As Dan J.S. clearly stated, the Lexus isn't a status symbol; it's just a Toyota with comfy leather seats, an impressive interior, an outstanding suspension, and great resale value. Why would I choose to spend $200+ on parts when I can find them on Ebay at half the price? Here in Puerto Rico, I purchased my '98 ES300 at the same price I could've purchased a '98 Camry. Not only that, but finding any seven-year old car with 40k miles is virtually impossible. Honestly, who would've chosen the Camry instead? And finally, why would I care what people around me think? It's not like they'll be chipping in to pay my bill...
I didn't say to always bring the car in to the Lexus dealer for service for what a Toyota dealer can do for less money. If you read what I wrote carefully, you will never see that. What I was talking about was putting lower octane fuel and putting aftermarket parts on it. I don't consider a Toyota Camry oil filter an aftermarket part on the Lexus ES330. (Also read my responses to others).
As a matter of fact, I do believe that Lexus dealers are very highly priced when it comes to service. They have a smaller, more meticulous clientele that they have to cater to. Their overhead is higher so they charge more. Is it worth it? Not for me. I work on my own cars, thank you. They only see me at the dealer for vehicle purchases, warranty items (hasn't happened yet), and OEM parts that are not available at the Toyota dealers.
If you wish to clear a code from your car again, try pulling the fuse(s) to the ECU for about 30 seconds. Works for me everytime...that is if the problem is merely an aberration and not a mechanical failure.
I'm curious to know what you guys think about the Total Cost of Ownership amounts on the Edmunds site... whether or not they are accurate or not.
Because from what I can tell, the TCO of "luxury" make such as Acura or Lexus at the low $30k range should not be significantly higher than the TCO for a non-luxury make in a similar price range... for example compare Nissan Maxima to Infiniti G35.
You're right.
On the other hand, the TCO for a luxury make like a BMW 7 is way high, because that puppy is worth only about $15K five years later.
I purchased a 1990 LS400 about 4 years ago for $11,000. It had 70,000 miles on it. It now has 160,000 and I've spent about $2500 on maintenance items (other than routine, such as tires and brakes). It's probably now worth $4,000. That comes down to $200/month. A new Chevy costs more than that.
Lemme guess, your 1974 Dodge Dart with the non-functional hood scoop is your 'Viperkiller'.
That's pretty funny, after reading all the posts I planned on making a Ducati/Honda comparison but figured not many would get it. Nice bike anyway!
Hey, the only car platform shared by Toyota/Lexus us the ES. That leaves the IS, GS, and LS as in no significant way related mechanically. Supposedly in the next generation the ES and Camry link will be broken. Maybe then this Lexus is "only" a Toyota whining will finally end. For some strange reason some German car heads just cannot stomach that Lexus (and recently Infiniti) make luxury cars that are better than the German brands. Go read the car books, and in every comparison the Japanese luxo cars win on content. They also are way more reliable than the German brands. (Not having to visit the dealer every few weeks - the ultimate luxury.) MB, BMW and Audi heads should be grateful to Lexus. Lexus slapped them upside their heads big-time in 1990 when the first LS rolled out and taught them the luxo barge buyers like reliability and a fair price, too. Just imagine how much more crappy the reliability of the German brands would be if the Japanese were not giving them plenty of competition. Lexus, Acura, and Infiniti are the best things that ever happened to German Car loyalists.
As for status symbols, to each his own. Me? I see a guy in an LS430, I think "Nice car, smart car to buy it." I see a MB S-Class I think "Poor bastard probably knows his service manager and the whole crew and maybe their families on a first name basis. Wonder if he has his own parking spot at the dealership?" I see a 7-Series and I think "Who is in charge at BMW that would let Bangle do that to their cars. Did Bangle have photos of the BMW board members doing naughty things with farm animals and black mail them with the pics?"
Cheers.
- nopcbs
"Dan J.S." wrote in message news: snipped-for-privacy@news.supernews.com...
No, it won't.
They will share core technologies and, of course, management. Only in the US do they separate the brands. Same goes for Honda.
After my initial warranty is up i will peform my own service on my ls430.
I don't own a Lexus, Acura, Infiniti, MB, BMW, or any other vehicle classified as luxury, as defined in this discussion.
However, fro what little I know about them, I would have to agree with these comments. I think the Lexus/Infiniti are probably much better vehicles than MB/BMW.
I've heard many stories on MB, and to a lesser degree, BMW, about maintenance/serviceability issues.
Additionally, I would add that the Lincoln competitor in this model group(I think it called LS) has impressed me as a world class vehicle.
Thanks,
Gary
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