The logic is political as in .... public relations. Let's invite some Lexus technicians to tell us what they see .... instead of another round of your maleficent speculation and hyperbole. Considering the overwhelming numbers of Toyota V6s out there are without sludge, replacing a few neglected engines is the price for positive publicity.
Not so sure that there is not a problem. Our dealer confirmed the problem and the solution was to change the oil every 5k miles. The key is regular maintenance.
In news:FAnyb.72577$xV6.67775@lakeread04, twaugh5 being of bellicose mind posted:
The Problem which your dealer and yourself have correctly identified is: The Customer.... not performing oil changes that are appropriate to their operating conditions.
A friend of mine owns and operates his own garage. He only works on Asian vehicles. Of course as we all know, all vehicles that are considered to be 'Asian' are not manufactured and assembled in Asian countries. At least not
*all* of these companies' models. At any rate, he said..."When it comes to Toyota and Lexus brand vehicles, oil changes at 3,000-4,000 mile intervals will positively prevent any oil sludging or gelling" like people on this forum are discussing. And he RAVES about the overall initial build quality and long term reliability of Toyota and Lexus brand vehicles when compared to the other Asia-based companies' products.I put a lot of stock into what this guy says, because he's never steered me wrong over the course of 15 years in dealing with him. In fact, he's won several auto races in cars that he built himself. The guy is one of the best mechanics that I have ever seen! So again, I totally trust his opinion on all automotive-related issues--including the infamous Toyota oil sludging/gelling one.
S.T.
OK, so why do most other brand of cars go 6,000 to 7,000 miles without this gelling problem? Not starting an argument over gelling here, just wonder why Toyota engines are so prone to this.......
Not one Toyota with real verifiable records of oil changes at the recommenced intervals developed sludge...
Scott in Florida
I posted several links that referenced articles where people said they did have reciepts (one even calimed the Toyta dealer did the oil changes). There is no doubt that other manufacturer's have had cases where their cars have had sludge problems. It is my contnetion that Toyotas have been especially prone to this problem. Furthermore Toyota has been espeically fervent in denying the problem and trying to cover it up. Trying to duck a design defect by blaming the resulting problem on the people buying your cars is crummy Customer service. Oh what a feeling.
Ed
Has Ed ever had a Toyota sludge up? Ed.... are you still beating your wife?
Falling asleep through C. E. White's post...
When I see pictures of reciepts, then I might believe you.
Do live in a cave? Toyota is not ducking the gelling problem. Toyota extended the warranty on those engines, when the gelling problem began to show up on Toyotas that were serviced at Toyota dealerships, in the required manner. All Lexus and Toyota owners were notified of the warranty extension. Toyota stopped installing the head that lead to the problem and began installing the redesigned head, late in the 2002 model year. Only those few diehards in the NG are still denying the problem exists, not Toyota.
mike hunt
"C. E. White" wrote:
"SAID" is the operative word....
Like I said 'Not one Toyota with real verifiable records of oil changes at the recommenced intervals developed sludge...'
Scott in Florida
The fact remains that certain Toyota engines apparently had far more problems with sludge build up that other engines. Maybe the owners didn't change the oil every 25 miles (apparently the Toyota required schedule), but do you think Toyota has especially stupid or negligent owners? Do a Google search on Ford and sludge or Chevrolet and sludge and then compare the results to a similar search on Toyota and sludge. All the misstatements and attempts to pass the problem off as an aberration caused by negligent owners can't change the fact that Toyota had a major problem with sludge build-up in certain engines. Under pressure they finally agreed to address the problem and they did make changes to the design of the engines while still trying to pretend it wasn't their fault. This is classic Toyota - try to blame all problems on owner negligence.
Falling asleep through C. E. White's post...
No
They have a lot of owners who think they can be bulletproof without maintaining the vehicle. They don't realize that you have to change the oil every 3k
You mean the bulletproof engines got more attention by people like you? What were you supposed to prove?
Yes, if you waited till 15k to change the oil, it might sludge up. If you wait that long, you should be shot anyway
No, they realized the naivity of most of thier drivers
That's what Honda does, get it right
Falling asleep through 's post...
Post proof or retract
And give us your correct address in Florida
In news:Xns944A95FF5E8C6wyrmshutup@130.133.1.4, Pahsons - Somnolent being of bellicose mind posted:
Not only -a- reciept but ... a history so that at least the last few time / mileages can be verified. It doesn't cut the mustard if the
1st receipt is at 10k miles, the second at 25k miles, and the third at 35k miles.
Do you know if the head was altered (and how so?)? Or was it the head gasket or... was it the oil vapor separator in the valve cover or... something else? Tell us what ya knows, Mikey!
"gmfan" wrote in message news:w_IAb.2836$ snipped-for-privacy@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
To be quite honest with you 'gmfan', I really don't know WHY they would be so prone to this particular type of problem. Maybe my mechanic just hasn't been in a situation where he's encountered one of these types of problematic Toyota engines. I'm not saying that the problem has never existed. And it may still yet. I just repeated what an Asian auto mechanic told me that has a great reputation in the community. My mechanic is a strong advocate of 3k mile oil change intervals in both foreign and domestic vehicles. Maybe it is overkill, but I've always followed this policy and have never, EVER experienced any engine problems over the course of the last 26 years. Regardless of the make/model of the vehicle that I've owned and operated. But I have experienced a complete transmission failure in a 2002 Chevrolet TrailBlazer LTZ(GM product) with only 9,000 miles on it; that I bought brand new and took excellent care of. Toyota may have their share of problems, but the Big 3's products certainly aren't a better alternative based on my past experiences with them. My Toyota and my Lexus are the ONLY brand new vehicles that I've purchased that didn't have to be taken back to the dealership for some type of warranty work before they even had 3k miles on them. All of my domestics(Ford and GM products) gave my a lot of trouble, and one of my Nissan Z-cars did as well. I still like the looks of a lot of the Big 3's vehicles, I just never want to own another one of them if I can help it. :-)
S.T.
When it comes to
1) Toyota has already ackwoledged the problem and covered it under warrantee. 2) All the Lexus dealers in South Florida call for 5000 mile oil changes. 3) My 1999 ES 300 gelled up eventhough I used synthetic motor oil (Mobil One) and changed the oil every 5000 miles. Synthtic oil is not supposed to break down as easily as regular oil. The engine has a problem and they know it.In news:Jd1Cb.435446$ snipped-for-privacy@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net, JL being of bellicose mind posted:
So.... at what odometer reading did your engine fail? Upon examination, what was determined to be the cause of your gelling? What you don't understand is that gelling / sludge is not matter of "break down".... rather sludge is the result of more contamination than the oil is capable suspending. This kind of excessive contamination can come from mechanical as well as driver induced conditions. Very high ambient humidity seems to be a factor too.
Your engine had/has a problem. What was done about it?
Perhaps that is too strong of a statement. The Toyota 'engine' does not have a problem, it is a good engine. Only some of those assembled during a particular time period with a particular head have a gelling problem. One need not be concerned about a gelling problem when buying a new Toyota today, since they no longer use the problematic head, and haven't for over a year. Many in the NG's are too quick to condemn 'ALL' for the relative 'FEW' that may be referenced in a TSB or recall especially when they apply to brands other than the one they prefer. From my perspective the gelling problem does not necessary occur in all of the engines assembled with that particular head. I believe the combination is simply more sensitive to HOW and WHERE the vehicles is used between servicing. Evidence of gelling seems to occur more readily in vehicles that are driven for short runs more often and in warmer parts of the country. Perhaps that is why MDT sees fewer engines gelled up in the north west? The engine we replaced was on a low mileage, year old car, that was generally not driven more that five miles at a time and the oil was replaced on a time bases. I have yet to see gelling in those that accumulate a lot of miles quickly. We are seeing it however on those with lower accumulated miles and cleaning them under warranty as Toyota suggests. If I owned one that was showing signs of gelling I would NOT clean it!! I would simply keep driving it as I do, change oil as required, and get a new engine with the new head when mine inevitable fails. ;)
mike hunt
JL wrote:
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