Distronic - radar cruise control?

a relatively few number of very vocal people. A MB salesperson (consume large grain of salt at this point) told me that the "quality" issues reported by the JD Powers Survey were based on year 2000 models that had an unusually high incident rate of light bulbs burning out. <

Oh, and that, too! Yes, best I can tell you from official scuttlebutt (a couple of friends are managers with MBNA) Osran bulbs have been a problem....along with quite a few other things!

No, the "JD Power survey" is not one, but several studies, and on all of them MB has fallen to average or below. In this year's "Vehicle Dependability Index "(VDI) 2000 model year MBs did poorly. In the 2003 "Initial Quality Study" (IQS), which shows owner experiences at 90 days in service (indicative of what you can expect of a car you'd buy today) MBs showing was equally poor, and in the 2003 "Customer Service Index" (CSI), which rates MB dealers on their service quality, the results are just as bad.

In NONE of these comprehensive studies did MB score higher than average, and it comes together like this: If you buy a new MB you're likely to have problems with it, at three years in service you will have had problems with it, and during that time your dealer is more likely than not to provide no better than average service.

This is all borne out by my personal experiences with three E Class' since

1997, although I must say the current one, a 2000 E430 Sport has been a great car with but a few problems, almost all caused by the dealers themselves when I took it in for simple maintenance services. And, this car was provided by MB back in 2000 after my dealer wrecked my '98 E43 Sport TWICE!

On the current car, the dealer broke the passenger mirror at PDI, then they broke the AC panel during the service appointment to fix the mirror. At the first "A" service another dealer offered me a free resort weekend if I'd let them fill out my MB Customer Satisfaction questionnaire! At the first "B" service yet another dealer 1) broke the key, 2) broke the air mass meter and tried to return the car to me unable to rev over 1,000 RPM! At the next "A" service another dealer spilled oil all over the front of the engine and gave it back to me with the "low coolant" light on. It goes on, but you get the picture. This is my last Mercedes Benz.

Unfortunately JD Power only reports the top ten on these surveys so you really can't pinpoint exact standings, but check out their web site and you'll notice MB never ranks in the top ten. Power studies are only indicators, but when you combine them with the less robust Consumer Reports standings and customer word of mouth, MB is not doing well.

I've been a big MB fan for some time, but I've become very disappointed. As you can see, my experiences have been generally bad with MB service all over the Country, it seems they are simply overwhelmed and unable to cope with the sheer service volume resulting from their sales increases over the past few years, much of which is made up of some really bad products like the ML and C Class. Indeed, one of my friends is a field manager for MBNA and candidly stated the C Class is the worst product they've ever released. Quite an indictment.

In closing, a very big dealer on Long Island, Rallye Motors, is also a BMW store. One of their managers stated that although they began as a MB organization years ago, they now consider themselves a BMW dealership, with an MB dual. He claimed MB has completely lost its way and is now run by what he described as "cast off marketing refugees" from the US domestic motor industry who haven't a clue. That's a terrible indictment, and one to ponder if you're an MB executive scratching your head.

Reply to
Gerald G. McGeorge
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Reply to
REInvestments

Do you know where I could read reliability results for the 1999 S -420? Consumers Reports doesn't keep reliability records (that I can find) for the S Class.

Reply to
REInvestments

You might try e-mailing JD Power & see if they can give you any info re: how the car ranked, etc. As I recall the old S-Class was one of the best in that years survey, maybe in the top ten. Not sure ....

Reply to
Gerald G. McGeorge

Steve, you're very welcome

As you can see also from posts just after yours there are a number of unhappy bunnies out there. Some of the problems are caused by the dealerships and I can say that over the years I have never experienced such bad things in the UK, Germany and (on one emergency visit) the Netherlands.

I think there are quite a few happy owners of recent models, too, however, even in this newsgroup.

My Mercs have been of the 'old school' until my 2001 CLK Cab. My other car is a 1993 190E 2-litre, which I felt was silly to sell as for the little money received I would be unlikely to get such a decent car (we have become a 2-car family!).

I have had the CLK since May 01 and have done (only) 14 000 miles. As mentioned, I have had only a couple of niggles (one fixed, the other the frame around the a/c vent in the driver's footwell, which appears to be partly broken and about which I shall eventully do something). Every time I get into it I feel a sense of occasion.

On my old car I had a Blaupunkt radio problem which took weeks not to get fixed properly; in the end the delays turned out to be mostly Baupunkt's fault and the radio was uneconomical to repair. For the inconvenience the Merc service adviser offered me a free service (on my new car), which I took up. Very commendably the Merc garage honoured the deal even though considerable time passed and the service adviser had moved to another branch and I had nothing in writing. They spoke to him and it was ok.

After following this newsgroup I have become much more aware of people's concerns with Merc cars, and in a recent article by a motoring journalist in Britain's leading quality Sunday paper there was a reference to the smaller Merc's "increasingly shabby" interiors, but he did mention BMW in the same 'shabby' breath!

Up to a few years ago I used to see copies of the monthly magazine of the ADAC, Germany's leading motorists' organisation. My dad was a member (living in Germany). Once a year they publish failure statistics from their own call-out records and it would be interesting to see how Merc has fared. When I read it the Big 3 Japanese marques were tops in reliability in the classes where they were represented, but Merc performed creditably, with BMW following closely. This info is available online, I think, but you have to be a member or otherwise pay to gain access. The URL is

formatting link
is even an invitation to join in English... There are at least two people who participate or have participated in this group who work in dealerships, one in the UK. It would be interesting to see their comments.

DAS

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Reply to
Dori Schmetterling

I think that's just the website. The Fall 2003 JD Power magazine ranks MBZ at 26th (tied with Audi) in the dependability study, with

318 problems per 100 vehicles, well below the industry average of 273. Lexus, which other posters have mentioned, is number one with 163 problems per vehicle reported. Porsche is number one in overall corporate rankings, with 193 ppv (this is due to Toyota being combined for this ranking, and their 201 ppv average brought down the Lexus score). Emanuel
Reply to
E Brown

I bought a C-Class in 2001 and it has been a total horror-story. I was perhaps very unlucky in some respects. I ordered my car while I lived in Germany, but got sent by work to France shortly after taking delivery. My car was also of horrific quality. It has taken two years, twenty two visits to various dealers, 65 days off the road, forty two faxes, uncounted telephone calls, and a great deal of hassle to finally sort out the car. I eventually had to drive it back to Germany to get one fault fixed because Mercedes France would no longer attempt to repair it. If you search on my name on Google I expect you will find further details.

Sure, anecdotes don't make data, and my experience may not be typical. But combine that with the JD Powers reports, and other consumer surveys like Which magazine, and MB is not looking good.

Also, bear in mind that when I was scoping my car, I was reading these horror stories too, and I thought to myself that it "wouldn't happen to me", or that "these problems were last years problems - MB would have sorted them out by now", etc, and any other excuse I could find to let heart overall cold logic. But foolishly I bought the car anyway. NEVER AGAIN!!!! I'll probably never buy another new car (as buying new you can't take a test drive before handing over the money), but if I do, I will ruthlessly study the JDPower ratings before I make a decision. I certainly will also never buy another Mercedes.

Reply to
Ric

I have it in my SL, and it works very well in dense traffic (NOT stop and go). When I enter the Autobahn in the morning, I switch it on and don't use gas or brake until I come to my exit (40km drive). Distronic doesn't work so well in light traffic, where you have the occasional, slower guy cutting in before you or not freeing the lane at the right time - essentially, you would stay at your given speed longer than Distronic does, discouraging the guy in front to hold the lane. I like it very much and would buy it again, if I would ever buy a Merc again. The quality of the cars is so bad, that I am in the process of returning my second SL now....... Regards, Florian "Peter Hedenström" schrieb im Newsbeitrag news:Zj9pb.519$%W3.512@amstwist00...

Reply to
Florian Diederichsen

. I like it very much and would buy it again,

My 99 S 420 seems pretty reliable, but I had been considering a new E or S. What types of problems have you been encountering?

Reply to
REInvestments

Sorry for not getting back sooner... TE 430 4matic: oillevel sensor, crankshaft rev sensor, 5x COMMAND, right mirror electrical setting, mirror memory, 4-matic transfer case (@86.000 km, car was only moving forward under terrible noise, made it very difficult to get the thing on the trailer), driver seat creaking, rear seat unlocking lever, Parktronic.

CL55: Teleaid (took them 3 tries to fix that), TV broken from factory, rear screen defrost (dealer), creaking drivers seat, all kinds of noises in both doors, tweeter on passenger side came off (dealer), battery empty after one week, major scratch in drivers door (dealer), COMMAND, left brake light (two tries, no fix) -> car returned, got my first

SL55: Teleaid (two tries), forgot CD-changer (dealer), wrong color (no joke, dealer), complete audio system was failing every other day, hissing noise behind passenger seat, creaking roof -> as they couldn't fix the audio system within four weeks, I returned the car and another

SL55: hissing noise behind passenger seat (according to dealer from the tank - tank changed, no change), various noises from the roof (took the dealer three weeks to fix that, installed the performance package afterwards), noises from roof AGAIN, and now the best: the paint is starting to come of in large strips! You can only believe it, if you see it. MB declares this as an adhesion problem of the paint, so this car goes back to them, too. In my humble opinion MB has a MAJOR quality problem, both with the cars themselves and the dealerships, which are quite incompetent. That is the reason why I won't buy one agein. The cars are really pretty and especially the SL is really fast, but the hassle is not worth it. Enjoy, Florian "REInvestments" schrieb im Newsbeitrag news:G1Orb.43820$ snipped-for-privacy@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...

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Reply to
Florian Diederichsen

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