Is Ford Running on Empty?

Then how do you explain why the Camry is the number one selling car in the US? ;)

mike hunt

because all you have to say to the common ignorant American consumer is that if its manufactured by any one but an American Corporation, it has to be better, and they believe it.

Whitelightning.

BTW, The Fusion and Mustang were ranked best in class by JD Powers. No other American makes to be found. John

"Bulletproof" or not, high horsepower FWD cars have torque steer problems. And you must admit, given the choice most every performance nut would opt for RWD over FWD.

So the modern Hemi's performance isn't a joke.

===

Now let's see if re-using the Hemi name is a "marketing ploy".

===

Conclusions So Far Unless there is something that has been under-/over-estimated or overlooked, it seems that this new Hemi has evolved into something as high-tech as the LS6 engine. If so, this means (from the street performance enthusiast point of view) it is hot right out of the crate (see output curves in Fig 1) and chock full of major power potential. Its crowning feature is going to be the cylinder head, so let's take a serious look at this all-important piece of hardware now.

Cylinder Head The advantage of a hemi design of combustion chamber is that the valves (and most importantly the intake valve) are always moving away from the shrouding effect of the cylinder walls (Fig 2) as they lift off the seats. However, the new hemi is not actually a true hemi as per its

====

Seems there was a valid reason to slightly modify the old Hemi design. The new Hemi needed more compression and the old Hemi design wouldn't cut the mustand.

=====

Flow Capability We can see that Chrysler's engineers were targeting the best two-valve head possible. There are two important questions that need to be asked here: How well did they succeed for the head in stock form and, since no aftermarket heads are available, what is its porting potential? The graph, Fig 3, gives the answers here and you are going to like them. First, the intake port. The stock port with its 2-inch valve flowed a whopping 270 cfm at only .600-inch lift. It hit the peak flow figures, which are produced at .700-inch lift on a stock LS6, at only about 375 thousandths lift. This is good news but there is a lot more. Peak figures are not the whole story. Good mid-range figures are also important. The new Hemi did extremely well here. At 250 thousandths lift, the stock head was nearer a $10,000 Winston (Nextel) Cup head than it was to even a good modified parallel-valve head.

A check on the intake port velocity (Fig 4) showed the intake to be a super high-speed port with valve-to-port areas very similar to what is seen in Formula One. Velocity probing showed 90 percent of the port flows at a velocity greater than 90 percent of maximum. This is far better than a typical 23-degree performance head for a small-block Chevy or, for that matter, the LS6.

The exhaust port showed the same high-function trend by hitting 161 cfm at 600 thousandths lift through its 1.55-inch valve. It also had a far better than average port velocity and velocity distribution (Fig 5).

We spent a day and a half on the flow bench in an effort to find out what this head does or does not like in the way of port mods. We are sure there is much still to come, especially with some bigger valves, but we did find what it took to produce, at 600 thousandths lift, some

Final Conclusions The bottom line here we think is that even in today's world, the Hemi, a year after its introduction, has got more going for it as a hot rod motor than perhaps the small-block Chevy did in 1956. Even with the limitations on valve lift brought about by the stock rocker, the cylinder head has more than enough flow potential to clear the 600-hp barrier and probably do it (relatively speaking) with ease.

====

"...clear 600-hp barrier and do it with relative ease" certainly sounds like a no-joke engine.

====

So will it be a success? This depends on the factory as much as anything. First, they must put it in vehicles that inspire hot rodders to do something with them. The Hemi truck is a great start here as the sport truck market is big. Introducing a viable pony car to compete with the Mustang would probably clinch the deal in that department. But it will still need a little more than just the right vehicles. The factory will have to support this engine in aftermarket parts. This appears to be happening but as far as we are concerned, it can't happen fast enough. We're avid Chevy fans and have owned many Chevy vehicles over the years, but this 5.7 Hemi has totally convinced us our next truck just has to be a Hemi-powered Dodge.

Hmmm... avid Chevy fans admitting the new Hemi outguns their brand's best. Not too shabby for a "marketing ploy" and a joke compared to old, huh?

Patrick

Certainly not in the opinion of the majority of new vehicle buyers. They buy far more from GM and Ford than any import brand.

mike hunt

If you own a new hemi, if I were you, I would not bet your title that you will 'walk away' from any old Hemi. LOL

mike hunt

I doubt it's all due to quality but also because of performance, comfort, and resale value. What do you think is the reason?

Most buyers buy what they buy because the believe that is the best buy for their money. The ONLY Toyota that is the number one seller, in its class is the Camry, however. Performance? That's funny, 8 out of 10 Camrys sold in the US are 4cy and way underpowered compared to those of its competitors that offer V6s for much less money.

mike hunt

I've had both the 4 and the V6 as rentals and their is a major difference in power between the two motors. The 4 is a real slug. The V6 is a lot better.

However, I still think the high end Corolla model is much more fun to drive than the Camry.

ANYTHING is more fun to drive than a 4 cy Camry. ;)

mike

I have a diesel Rabbit...

Kinda like most Mustangs sold huh? LOL

Not really comparable. FWIW the base cars usually are the best sellers, mostly due to rental companies getting them.

The V6 Mustang (2005+) is quite fast, has a decent exhaust sound and is a lot of fun to drive especially a ragtop model.

The GT adds on top of that, but it's really not *THAT* much of a difference in everyday driving for average people.

Of course the enthusiasts and Mustang nuts like ME appreciate the difference. But average Joe using it to commute to work? Nahhhh...

Some say the V6 actually feels better handling the corkscrew turns because the nose is lighter by about 150lbs or so.

The V6 and 4 cyl Camrys are like night and day just like the V6 and 4 cyl Mazda 626 were, in their day.

I have had both versions of the Mazda and Camry as rentals for a week or more and IMHO it's a major difference in driveablity.

I actually thought there was something wrong with the 4 cyl Camry I rented. It was that slow and even worse throttle response was sluggish.

Ford was real smart offering a good performance V6 in the entry model because most people will never be able to appreciate the extra the GT offers.

Their wallet will appreciate the lower insurance costs however :)

Seems Pontiac and Saturn have done the same with the Sky/Solstice.

I think Dodge slipped a little offering that V6 in the Hemi models. Then again Dodge was selling a 2.x liter 4 banger for Caravans :(

Big mistake IMHO.

Don't laugh. Find me an original road test where a normal production Hemi car posts a trap speed of 109 mph. You don't have to bother looking because you won't find any. 105 is it, with most posting trap speeds closer to 100. And if you've been a subscriber to Hemmings Muscle Machines magazine you'll have noted a few times where they've stated the old Hemi cars aren't as fast as the new SRT Hemi cars, or more like not even close to as fast.

Me... I'd bet the farm on the a new SRT Hemi...

Patrick

Me too. And don't even talk about fuel economy, efficiency and cornering ability. The new Dodges clean house in that neck of the woods. I drove the 5.7 Hemi and while I don't really like the styling, it was a seriously powered ride! You literally have to hang on to the steering wheel to keep from flying back in the seat. Quite nice. The larger Hemi can only be better....

However, the Mustang, even the V6 is simply more fun to drive. It really is. I dunno why, I really don't but IMHO it is a more fun ride. I think it might be because the Dodge feels *heavy*...

The Dodge is heavy. The Charger is about 4200 pounds. It is slower than my 1994 Corvette, even though the new Dodge has about 75 more horsepower.

A V6 Mustang will blow the doors off a Camry with EITHER engine LOL

The difference is in the torque and the RPMs at which it is produced. Domestics do not generally wind up the engines, to produce higher HP figures for advertising purposed, as do the Japanese. Thus their engines develop more torque at the proper RPMs, and that show up in much better performance. I also will result in better real world fuel economy if one lives in hilly or mountainous areas of the country

Ya OK, you wish. LOL

2007 Ford Mustang, V6 standard 4.0-liter, V6, 210-horsepower at 5,250 rpm,

Before you get too excited about the power being at higher RPMs, have a look at the Mustangs V-8 numbers...

I can see all the Camry doors all over the shoulders of the roads now, NOT...