Stroked 351 Windsor

Stroking an engine leaves us needing to check a host of things... on our

440/500 conversion, we had to notch the bottom of the cylinders for connecting rod clearance, the boss where the oil pump pick-up enters the block (obviously, not a concern with the Windsor) had to trimmed severely, and we had to address the oil pan rail.... when clearancing these areas, we need to realize that things can "grow" at high rpms.

Anything in the way of metal to metal contact should leave witness marks... some of these may require very, very close inspection.

"onefastmustang" wrote

I also have a 393 stroker crank in my Windsor. Yes, the oil pan has to be clearanced, and not by much either.

Hi Scott..

How did you determine where it needed to be clearanced? Are there any good aftermarket pans that will work and not have to be messed with???

66 6F HCS wrote:

I'm considering a Coast Windsor stroker. My gut tells me the 331 would likely be less to worry about (no need for notching the block, better rod angle, etc.), and good to go on 6000+ RPM, but my need for speed tells me 347 is 16 more inches. I just have a problem with pushing any block to the limits, you know? And I could always fit the 331 with a Paxton =)

OTOH - I am spending this $ once... unfortunately anything in the FE category is prohibitively expensive, having gone so far down the 289/302 path. Any thoughts? A 351 crate would require me to buy a lot of new stuff too. The new 600 carb would be a waste. The 8" Currie, although strong, would probably break.

Please chime in anyone

"onefastmustang" wrote

I let my engine builder determine that. He told me he just used a small ball peen hammer and did some percussion engineereing on it. Of course the motor was out of the car and on a stand. With the longer stroke stroker kits you HAVE to clearance EVERYTHING before installing the motor. It's truly gonna be a PITA for you to do it now.

I seriously doubt it. But, you could call CHP to see what they say, they may have pre-clearanced oil pans.

"Obie f.k.a. Wound Up" wrote

I SERIOUSLY doubt you'd notice *any* "SOTP" difference between the 331 and

347.

Well... with the 393 stroker the only odd part is the crank itself. The pistons are 302 pistons and the rods are stock 351 rods. MUCH cheaper than going bigger and having to be ALL special parts. Just find a beat up 351W and tear it down. rebuild with new crank and dished 302 pistons and you're done. Everything else will bolt on (as I know you know). The only difference would be finding a good block.

I re-used the rods that were already in my 351 when I got it. Used 12cc dish

302 pistons to keep the compression at 9.5:1 using D0OE iron 351W heads (though they are FAR from stock; roller rockers, port polish). 393 crank from CHP for ~$250. Balance the whole thing and put it together. The block is ".060 ob, so It's in essence a 400 small block (rounding up the way Ford always does). Once I put on a set of GT-40X heads, It'll pump out damn near 500lb/ft and ~430hp all with a rebuilt 625cfm Carter. Glad I've got a fairly solid FMX and a 9".

It won't be so bad.. Ill just put the frame back up on jack stands and drop the oil pan. I think I will try a couple things before I go back that direction though.

Easiest to pull the plugs so you can rotate the engine easily and see where the crank knocks the pan.

Yeah... I broke down and ordered a race pan for the car.. I called milodon and their pans are deeper all around and will clear the crank.. I started up the car and reached under, I could feel the taps on the pan from the crank.. Ill know by tommorow night if that is the case.. ;>)

I wondered this myself. But, while I was at it...

That sounds like a great combo. I would have thought you'd use a larger CFM carb at higher altitudes. Whatever I get, the Performer 600 is staying, at least for a while. The GT-40 head is sometimes wrongly maligned. I looked at the P head and the only issue was header clearance. And if I had experience doing it, I would love to build my own.

But I would likely go crate, and I have thought 351W in the background this whole time. I just fear I'd jump on it and break the third member. The transmission can take it, for sure. Currie rates its stuff on the conservative side, IMO. It's an 8" four-pinion limited slip unit with the same webbed case as the GT/CS cars had. Hell, Ford they put a non-reinforced-case open 8" behind the 352 in a heavier car, not sure if the torque is similar, but I have to think this very stout little 8" could take 400 lbs./ft.... ???? Am I kidding myself???

AAHHHH. Hindsight. All this trouble with getting the tranny in, strong enough for a built 390, but the rear end worries me. I wonder if I should just risk it, and if I do bust it, feign indignance to the wife and then get the 9" N case =)

"Obie f.k.a. Wound Up" wrote

Actually I need less. I'd just lose fuel efficiency (not like I'm getting much anyway). I never plan on running this thing near or over 6k rpm, so the

625 Carter is just fine. The only issue with the smaller carb is when I drop the hammer from a stoplight, the car just CAN'T suck enough fuel to keep up with the vacuum and it the off-idle flat spot is HUGE. But once I hit ~2000 rpm it's a rocket!! I'm thinking a 2200 stall is in order, even though a bigger carb is cheaper. In the long run the higher stall is more efficient in my case.

From a 10mph rolling start I beat the crap out of a '69 Camaro with a 390 and the Edelbrock RPM package (heads/cam/intake), a 4-spd, and 3.73's. I was amazed and the Camaro's owner was not amused. Especially when I lifted the hood at the Autozone, after the impromptu race, and he saw a plain 'ol edelbrock performer intake, a dinky 625 Carter, a stock dizzy with points and iron heads. The only thing that says performance (visually anyways) about this engine is the Powermaster alternator and the long tube Hedmans. Everything else is very stealth. No way to see the stroker, cam or the extensive headwork.

Other than the fact that the P is an iron head, I'd still go with the "X" head. Much maligned, yes, does it's job, yes, especially with the cam I have. And since I'm not planning on revving the hell out of it I don't really need the more expensive bigger port heads out there. What I can use is the increased compression. The D0OE heads are 72cc chamber giving 9.5:1. The X heads will push that to the 12.5:1 range. Hoo-Boy!! I nthis altitude it won't hurt to bad since you can almost take 1 full point off for being a mile high. I can run my 10:1 302 on 85 octane pump gas (with nary a hiccup) at this altitude, so I should still be able to run on something out of the pump without resorting to race gas.

If you stick with the 600cfm you don't need to worry about it. It'll flat spot off the line anyway, killing max torque off the line and sparing you

8". You can add the aftermarket 8" case bracing anyway can't you?

Remember that they were gearing them for the highway with those 8"ers behind the BB's So the motor had to work to get the car going. They weren't running

4.11"s behind those FE's and 8" rears. Yes, they woulda busted something. 352 was good for stump pulling, but not a high revver.

What oil pan are you using? Canton pans are famous for making contact in the rear, I think if was on the left. I clearanced mine with a small hammer.

I see what you mean. I would have thought "big CFM, jetted a bit leanly". I suppose smaller CFM jetted fairly stock works well, too.

I never plan on running this thing near or over 6k rpm, so the

Makes sense. I get fuel starvation at WOT in 1st because of my gears (and I need some braided hose too). Having driven a fair bit up at a mile high higher, I would probably also prefer a higher stall convertor, to get on cam quickly and stay there.

HA HAA. Always the best. He expects more than what he's got.. but it's not there! But why no Pertronix? Best $70 I ever spent. Points suck man! Especially new ones, the metal seems to have degraded in quality over the years, and the dwell changes too quickly.

The only thing that says performance (visually anyways)

This is partially why a stroker SB apppealed to me. I have no chrome badges, and never will. Let them guess, I say. My car is plain jane but has smooth lines and nice paint. I am going for "looks stock but goes like hell."

Good lord, high torque starter next!! What gas do you need for that? You can't really run more than 10.5:1 here without worrying about octane.

I nthis altitude

That makes sense. Mine is a rebuilder, so figure 8.0-8.5, but I time it for 89. Seems to be the best curve for the cam. What I need to do is get those damned 351 manifolds on it in the meantime. It's so constricted I can feel it fight those manifolds at anything over 3500 rpm.

I would like to have about 6000 rpm available to me, with an operating range starting in the low 2000s, because of overdrive. The five speed makes me want that extra 800 rpm badly. Plus I wanna hit 60 in 2nd. I just like lots of room to play with. Comp Cams makes "Xtreme Energy", high-lift, short-duration cams that fit this profile. I run a middling one now, waving bye-bye at about 5200, because I don't want to spin the snot out of the cheap motor I have in it.

It seems like you've got a great, well planned setup there. I have had in my mind a balanced, livable but powerful setup like yours for my car for years now. The last piece is the "real" motor.

Good point, that big jolt off the line can be killer. I never considered that bog as a means to save my parts! And yes, there is an external pinion support available for the 8".

I wasn't really sure. I guess it was designed for low-to-mid range torque to push those big things around, not for produce smoke hitting

2nd gear.... passenger car motor I spose

I meant 383, not 390.

"Obie f.k.a. Wound Up" wrote

I've had bad luck with Pertronix. I'm gonna save my pennies for the Crane XR-1 with the built in rev-limiter.

I could probably get away with 91

Time for a Roots!! ;)

I can already do that with my Ranchero, course it's a built 302 being held back by a C4 with a trans-go kit and 2.70:1 peg leg.

I'm running the XE262H. It's specifically for stock stall automatics with

3.5-4.11 pumpkins. However I've heard Crane is coming out with profiles SPECIFICALLY for strokers. Hmmm.

Like my Ranchero. Even though I have a SB. Wish I had the stock motor again since it built torque down low. The engine now is built to rev and the gears hold it back so badly I can barely tow with it. I can't get enough RPM before the damn tranny shifts again. PITA!!! This car, however, is a freaking BULLET on the interstate.

Missed that entirely. 350 bored .030 over, right?

I've heard both sides of the story. I love mine. Some have had back luck. I have a generation 1 or whatever

Reasonable.

You know, it has crossed my mind. I mean why not get the Paxton actually and just huff the damned "Pep Boys" crate motor and see if it holds together? If it doesn't, a blower was probably going to be in my plans anyway.

My Tremec's 2nd is 1.98, and I have 3.80:1 rear. Factoring in tire diameter, I'm going to need a smidgen over 6000 to reach 60. My first t-code Stang had a tightly built C4 behind its (replaced) 302 and 2.79s. It would still bark 2nd at just under 60. I may have the pumpkin rebuilt to 3.55s, because 1st is useless, and 3.25 wouldn't give me enough torque to push the Stang through the air 75 mph without hitting the secondaries all the time.

I like my XE256 for mid-range torque, but after 5000 there's not much at all. Gearing and displacement will have to be factored into the final equation. A flat-tappet 302 that pulls over 6500 isn't very tractable in 100 degrees with the a/c blasting.

No kidding? Just got the revs up there, power on demand, huh? My 302 Stang was like that with the 3.80s and the C4 - 3500 at 75 (taller tires), right in the meat of the torque curve... step on it and GO. No kickdown, no need to. Fun but loud.

Nope, 350 with a 400 crank.

"Obie f.k.a. Wound Up" wrote

And if it scatters, just make sure you remove the blower before trying to return the crate complaining something went wrong in their assembly.

That's the problem with my current cam. When we ordered it, we ordered for a

351, not a 400. So now the engine wants MORE since it has the extra torque just waiting to be unleashed.

I've gone 95mph on the interstate and the engine is JUST STARTING to rev up. All this roaring out my twin glasspacks as I fly by the riceboys. I've had a couple try to catch me, but they have to rev their engines SO far in the stratosphere to make any power that all I have to do is put my foot in it and pull away with nary a fart from the little small block, all at about

3500rpm. 60-90mph is a snap of the neck. I really have to watch the speedo on the interstate 'cause the 302 just loves the powerband at 80mph with those gears. REALLY easy to speed and have no idea that I am.