Re: GM to cut 30,000 Jobs & Close several NA Plants


attractive
has
the
afford
I used to think the way you do at one time 80 K.
Then I bit the bullet and purchased a pre-owned 3 year old Honda Civic sedan with 35K on the clock for my daughter to use at college. That was 11 Years ago. That Honda is still going strong and apart from a brake job, a new muffler and routine oil changes and a coolant flushing, the car has NEVER been in the shop even once for a major repair. It's now got 160K on the clock and still starts and runs like a Singer sewing machine. The body has aged and it "ain't pretty" like it used to be but it still runs 4 my daughter and she loves it.
I wish that I could say the same for my wife's Ford Tarus sedan (..scrapped and replaced with a Honda Accord last year) and my GM truck which has had 2 major engine service procedures before it reached 80K miles.
I would like to "buy American" via a Ford or a GM product, but the likelyhood is very low at this time as I have found that Honda builds a far more reliable car that Detroit. The only exception to the rule is Subaru, my neighbor has an Outback Wagon that has been plagued by oil leaks and cooling system problems from day one. My mechanic echoed the same, saying that Subaru's engines all have known problems with blown gaskets and oil leaks and not to touch a Subaru product of any kind with a 10' pole. My next truck just may be that Honda pickup their now making. It may be more plastic than metal but if it's anything like my daughter's ultra-reliable Civic it looks like it will be a keeper.
It's a damm shame Ford and GM can't design and build cars and trucks which are just as reliable in the long term as Honda. Subaru is another story however and their crap might as well have a GM logo affixed to it.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

My last two cars were Fords: both of them died earlier than I expected. (My latest was only 10 when it died - due to something deep in the engine that was going to cost around as much to sort out as the car was then worth. The previous one was an automatic whose transmission ended up needing to be rebuilt.) The only American car we had that much impressed me was our 1981 Oldsmobile Regency '98 which, at 17 years old, still mostly had its original parts. However, one good thing about Ford: you may need a few spare parts over the car's life, but they're not as expensive as some brands' parts.

My understanding is that Subaru's much improved with respect to this engine problem in recent years. I'm not having problems with my STi, but at 28,000 miles it's probably too soon to be sure. The only things I've needed to do to it so far have been pretty superficial. Maybe the major parts are due to break when it's outside the 30,000-mile warranty - we'll see. (-:
(cut crosspost because I don't post to groups I don't read)
-- Mark
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

I guess these things are all subjective and just one guy's experience. I have a hard time not commenting here, though, with respect to this due to my experience with GM vehicles. I've got a '93 Chev. diesel pickup with 208,000 m. on it that has been without any major problems. Particularly the turbodiesel engine. Absolutely rock solid reliability and this truck has not been coddled at all. Had a '79 and an '83 of the same vehicle with the exact same experience. Even the paint jobs never faded out on me and they still looked good until the last day I had them. The only Jap car I ever owned was back when I was working in Saudi Arabia. A Datsun that spum out a rod bearing and left me beside the road. A friend I worked with bought one of those new Nissan small pickups. He'd had it about a year when he started in our work parking lot and the crank pully broke off at the crankshaft. You read that right. The crankshaft snapped off flush with the front of the engine. I'm not saying this has never happened to a GM vehicle, just that I've never heard of it and I've been around for 56 yrs. I just do not agree at all with this business of GM not building reliable vehicles, but, again, it's just my personal experience.
Garrett Fulton
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

I can accept that. But, I can also say that I have had relatives (just as yourself) who have had Chevy trucks last well past 400,000 with nothing major done to it, and the other day a friend stopped by with a Cavalier which had already rolled the odometer once, and they were quite pleased with the car as well. As for Honda's, I cant really comment on them as I have never owned one, and I have a strictly GM family (I live in Oshawa Ontario, so a lot of them work at the plant there, and a couple more work for GM dealerships), however my mother's boyfriend does have a Civic. Though, I once again can't comment on it as I have never driven it, and he does not know much about them as he trades it in every 2 or so years. I guess basically, every car company makes the occasional 'pearl' and every company makes the occasional 'lemon'.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Hey, I live near Oshawa, too and my husband and I have both worked at GM over 20 years. I buy a new car every couple years and only had one Cavalier many years ago that was a piece of junk. Ironically, I bought it because it had been made in Ohio rather than Mexico. My family's experience has been excellent, as well. Also, we have gotten a few things "goodwilled", i.e. paid for (bearings on a Rendezvous, head gasket on a Venture), after the vehicles were well out of warranty. Sometimes you just have to ask.
GM and Toyota share the top quality awards. It is mostly a false perception, based on the past, that GM's quality is poor. The plant they are axing in Oshawa has the best quality in North America, of all the companies.
Jane

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

I think it depends on the dealership you go to. Some are very co-operative and will assist you in any way they can.

Tell me about it. Ticked me off something fierce when I read they were closing that plant. They need to fire that idiot in charge and get the company rolling again.

80K
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Many don't believe it will actually happen. Likely wishful thinking, but we'll see. They will want concessions, especially mandatory overtime. It may also depend on the dollar and other things we have no control over.
Jane

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
80 Knight wrote:

Why should I support a company that was more than happy to screw us over in the past? Let them die: a company that has had quality as its number one priority right from the start deserves trust more than GM ever did. The only reason they turned this leaf over is because they got their ass handed to them when foreign cars entered the market, and quite frankly I don't believe companies such as GM are doing anything but trying to survive: tacking on safety features as a last resort before simply choking and going bankrupt.
Let them die! As a public, N.A. company, if they were ever willing to put profit before human safety, they don't deserve to be allowed to continue.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Who cares if GM closes plants. Workers are overpaid for doing jobs trained monkeys can do. They want benefits and all sorts of perks not deserved by blue collar workers. GM designs the ugliest cars (exc vette) with the cheapest interior plastics. I wouldnt buy one. GM even had to use an Isuzu Trooper to win the Race Across Australia. Instead of greedy workers asking for more, they should accept a pay freeze and tell management to put the money into buying better components then quality will rise and then sales will too.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Why is it that GM and Ford and Chrysler for that matter, can't seem to build a solid reputation for a "type" of car. I mean Honda, Toyota have the reputation for being reliability/quality leaders. Subaru as a AWD and reliability leader, Volvo as a safety leader etc. Matbe the big three are trying to be all things to all people with the result of being only mediocre to non-pragmatic people. I research what I buy, before I buy it. I wouldn't touch a GM regardless of features-for-the-buck. Chrysler and Ford...Ditto. I'm glad GM had to sell off it's FHI (Subaru) interests. It only raises the Subaru name by doing so. GM is crap and until they figure out that long-term proven results with their vehicles will translate into market share. Bad results-declining market share. They cut their own throat with all of the heavy discounting, insulting advertising and shitty cars. Good riddance as far as I'm concerned.
--


< snipped-for-privacy@backpacker.com> wrote in message
news: snipped-for-privacy@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Your are entitled to you own opinion but it is after all that of a minority. The fact is more buyers prefer the vehicles from GM Ford and Chrysler than prefer either Toyotas or Hondas. Number one GM, sell three times as many vehicles as number four or five Toyota or Honda. Number two Ford, sells more than twice as many vehicles as Toyota or Honda Chrysler sell half again as many as Toyota. With all of the high quality, well built vehicles, offered by GM, Ford and Chrysler today a prudent buyer is not going to spend 20% to 30% more to buy a Toyota or Honda
mike hunt

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Fri, 25 Nov 2005 10:26:34 -0500, "Mike Hunter"

Last time I checked, Toyota is #2 and quickly closing.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Were, in your dreams? ;)
Six months sales figures individual vehicles
. Ford F-Series 432,969 . Chevrolet Silverado 322,907 . Dodge Ram pickup 223,609 . Toyota Camry 213,625 . Honda Accord 192,106 . Ford Explorer 168,059 . Honda Civic 162,483 . Ford Taurus 144,035 . Chevrolet Impala 139,460 . Dodge Caravan 131,367
mike
wrote:

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Talk about using figured to lie
Try looking at over all sales.
--
--------------------------------------------------------
Personal e-mail is the n7bsn but at amsat.org
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Toyota sells just over 10% of the vehicles sold in the US, Honda even less In total vehicle sales GM sells three times as many in the US as Toyota. Ford sells more than twice as many and Chrysler sell nearly half again as many as Toyota. Both GM and Ford sell more light trucks, including SUVs, than Toyota sells cars and trucks combined. In 2005 GM, Ford and Chrysler sold around 55% of all the vehicles sold in the US. ALL of the numerous others from Japan, Europe and Korea sold around 45% combined. Do a search and educate yourself before you post again on a subject of which you have little or no knowledge, WBMA.
mike hunt
wrote:

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

I yield, you will cherry pick your facts to prove your points.
--
--------------------------------------------------------
Personal e-mail is the n7bsn but at amsat.org
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Ralph E Lindberg wrote:

Right now Toyota in number two behind GM in auto sales and closing the gap (they just passed Ford and Chrysler is a distant 4th). They have not been at 10% for a long time
--

-----------------
www.thesnoman.com
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Is that a Toyota car I see as #1 car and Honda as #2! <:)
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
I see why your are confused by advertising and semantics. Yes, Toyota sells more individual brand cars, but over half the vehicles sold in the US are light trucks and SUVs. GM and Ford sell more trucks than Toyota and Honda sell cars AND trucks combined. In fact GM and Ford sell more light TRUCKS ALONE than Toyota and Honda sell cars AND trucks combined . GM sells more trucks and CARS than any other brand except Ford. While both GM and Ford sell more trucks and CARS than Toyota or Honda, Toyota and Honda sell more cars under ONE label than GM or Ford. The best selling vehicle of one brand in the US is the Ford F Series, but GM actually sells more trucks with its several brands. If one went by advertising one might think Toyota offers the most vehicles with the best fuel economy. The fact is GM sells over 19 vehicles that get thirty MPG or better, Toyota only offers nine and Honda even less GM even has V6 equipped vehicles that can match some of the 4cy vehicles of some import brands. ;)
mike
wrote:

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

You have blinded eyes and are looking just inside your little world. Many GM cars are very behind Toyota, Honda and others on design. Toyota will soon be the largest car manufacturer in the world, the customers obviously like Toyota's, Honda's, etc. designs and quality, because as you state they generally cost more, but the difference is much less than you suggest and is decreasing. Recently the big 3 have seen dropping sales, while Toyota, Honda, etc. have had steady sales increases. The customers are talking with their dollars.
For example one thing I definitely need in my cars is a full size matching spare. GM's recent designs (even of their smaller SUVs) don't have a wheel well capable of holding a full size spare, while most Toyotas actually include a matching full size spare.
GM has been trying to catch up in design in the last few years, but their cost structure is killing them. The income from GMAC and retained cash has been keeping GM above water. Those days are quickly ending.
Where do I stand on my car purchases? In the 50s I switched to imports being very unhappy with the 50s cars; back to big 3 cars in the 60s; back to imports in the 70s; have bought big 3 cars since 1979. Unfortunately I don't see a current big 3 car product that meets my requirements.
However most Toyotas, Hondas, etc. are no longer imports to NAFTA, so my choice of a non import is much larger than previously!
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Motorsforum.com is a website by car enthusiasts for car enthusiasts. It is not affiliated with any of the car or spare part manufacturers or car dealers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.