Alignment Question

Q: If the Left-Rear wheel is toed IN too much, which way will the car "pull"?

-ChrisCoaster

Reply to
ChrisCoaster
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left.

nate

Reply to
N8N

Right.

Reply to
dnoyeB

Yes, left, because it will be pushing the rear of the car right.

Like on a rear-wheel steer forklift, to turn left, the rear wheels point to the right, the ass-end goes right, pointing the front of the vehicle to the left.

Dave

Reply to
spamTHISbrp

Rear toe being out of spec will not cause a pull. Just how far IN is

*too much* ? What problem(s) are you having with the vehicle ?
Reply to
Mike

Ahh. Thats one way to think of it. The car will definitely be pointing left. So you'll have to steer a bit right to keep it straight. But because of the turning radius, when going straight it will cause the front wheels to effectively be toed "out."

So the net effect is a front toe out and a rear toe in. Wow, a rear toe-in is a bad one!

Reply to
dnoyeB

Well, we now have every possible answer. It seems to me that if one side of the car (the left) has more rolling resistance than the other, it will pull toward the side with the resistance, just as Nate says.

A little extra toe in on the left side would also make the rear of the car wander to the right, wouldn't it? This would make the front inch toward the left.

Or am I completely caught off base.

My stepdaughter had a problem with a GM rear axle, and the only thing she noticed was that the tires wore to the belts in a few months. The shop aligned the FRONT wheels and sent her on her way. I didn't buy into this, and when I talked to them, they checked the rear, and found a bent rear axle.

Reply to
<HLS

Reply to
Shep

Well, like a complete suitcase face(!) I backed my '05 Malibu sedan up rather *briskly* out of the parking space while I had the steering wheel over to the left. With all the snow we've had up here I didn't see the raised island and backed my left rear up over it. Put a small chip in the rim too. And since then the car's been pulling left and there's also a "roar" coming from the back that varies with speed. No vibration, just a roaring sound.

Reply to
ChrisCoaster

I was beginning to thing all the people here was going to get on the rear toe=pull wagon... Bingo to you two for seeing it correctly. Doesn't matter what the numbers are in the rear (to an extent) the tire will equalizes the difference between the two and cause a rear end to be off center. Many cars from the factory with a non adjustable rear end have the rear end with the left -.25; right +.25 and a total toe of "0"

My x-boss and I got onto it over a Honda that was in for the 3rd time with a pull; I told him that toe will not cause a pull; and on a stock Honda toe is all that's adjustable. He told me that if the left tire is pointed right and the right tire is straight then the car goes left. I tried to explain to him that the two will equalize and cause tire wear. I finally showed him the "print" and explained to him "Sell the camber kits and we can fix the pull issue.

Reply to
Stephen H

Reply to
Shep

Interesting.

When I had my '92 Integra aligned last year, the tech explained that in order to do it, he had to establish the "thrust" with the rear wheels, then proceed to use that as a centreline for adjusting the fronts.

Does that make sense? It seems to tie in to what you're saying.

And the purpose of this?

How would camber cause pull in the subject Honda?

Reply to
Hugo Schmeisser

__________________ Camber can cause pull in anything. The vehicle will pull to the side with the most positive(upright or leaning out at the top) camber wheel. So if you look at a vehicle straight on, and the passenger wheel is leaning in at the top(negative camber) and the driver's side wheel is perfectly straight or pointed out(positive) at the top, that vehicle will pull toward the driver's side.

OR - if the driver's side leans in a lot at top(a couple degrees), and the passenger wheel leans in just a little, the car will "pull" albeit slightly toward the passenger. Of course, unequal caster can make things a little messier than our discussion permits.

My question concerns toe - as in - how can the direction a wheel is set to point in NOT effect the direction the car will roll in, or "pull"? I mean, isn't steering the car itself a constant variation of the direction of toe - of BOTH front wheels?

-CC PS I'm nervously awaiting Tuesday when I will take the Malibu in and hopefully not find the things mentioned here. : )

Reply to
ChrisCoaster

If BOTH rear wheels are out of spec such that the left one is pushing right and the right one is also pushing right, then this could happen. In real life, if one of the rear wheels has a toe problem, the symptom is uneven tire wear at that wheel. The steering usually does not pull in either direction.

Reply to
E Meyer

I have always been of the thought that toe in usually just burns off rubber where toe 'out' will make it pull.... (unless something is seriously out) The track the vehicle takes when toed in might be different that proper toe and the vehicle might 'puppy walk' or 'crab walk' making the steering wheel not straight, but it doesn't usually pull.

Mike

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Reply to
Mike Romain

__________________ Camber can cause pull in anything. The vehicle will pull to the side with the most positive(upright or leaning out at the top) camber wheel. So if you look at a vehicle straight on, and the passenger wheel is leaning in at the top(negative camber) and the driver's side wheel is perfectly straight or pointed out(positive) at the top, that vehicle will pull toward the driver's side.

OR - if the driver's side leans in a lot(a couple degrees), and the passenger wheel leans in just a little, the car will "pull" albeit slightly toward the passenger. Of course, unequal caster can make things a little messier than our discussion permits.

My question concerns toe - as in - how can the direction a wheel is set to point in NOT effect the direction the car will roll in, or "pull"? I mean, isn't steering the car itself a constant variation of the direction of toe - of BOTH front wheels?

-CC PS I'm nervously awaiting Tuesday when I will take the Malibu in and hopefully not find the things mentioned here. : )

Reply to
ChrisCoaster

Then my left-rear must be pretty out of whack. Could that cause the tread to be out enough to cause a roar?

-CC E Meyer wrote:

Reply to
ChrisCoaster

Of course. The rubber is sliding across the ground as opposed to rolling.

Reply to
dnoyeB

So that's the resistance - which is probably causing the pull to the left.

Speaking of which - this car always pulled a little to the left, as did the '03 Impala I traded in for the Malibu. I live in CT, which has hardly any road crown(camber). Does GM, or any other car mfg, consider the territory where cars are being sold and used in and adjusting for crown accordingly? Two weeks after I bought the Malibu, we had it down the Jersey Shore - Atlantic City, Ocean City. Those have to be the steepest crowned streets I've ever seen, compared to CT anyway. Gues they have to account for flood runoff that close to the Atlantic Ocean. The Malibu tracked perfectly straight down there.

-CC

Reply to
ChrisCoaster

well no, as has been shown, a rear toe will not cause a pull. It will cause the car to be skewed tail to the right. This skew will cause both rear tire to drag equally.

You may need to turn the wheel to the right for the car to go straight. This in turn will cause both front wheels to 'drag' as well since the turning radius will cause a net toe-out on the front tires. Thats more roaring.

But when you let go of the wheel it should go straight unless there is another problem with the front end.

Reply to
dnoyeB

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