Buying your tools at sears?

There's no argument with that, but I'm in Las Vegas, where there's rarely rusted fasteners, and dealer mechanics are usually working on newer cars. You can get away with sloppy fits under those conditions.

A co-worker of mine buys their impact wrench sockets, and uses them with a hand wrench. He says they are cheaper than the higher end hand wrench sockets and about as good.

Personally, every product I have ever used from HF wound up failing in a way that injured me. I don't like getting injured so I tend to avoid their products. Or any cheap products. As noted, though, it's getting harder to find stuff that is actually well-made.

--scott

Are there no Snap-on, Mac Tools , Matco nor S-K dealers in your immediate area or have their quality also declined?

Snap-on has severely declined, as has Mac. I don't think we have a Matco dealer around here although I have got some decent stuff from S-K recently. Also Wright makes some very good hand tools that I have been very happy with, but they also seem to be hard to find.

--scott

the thing that gets up my ass-crack about snap-on [and mac] more than anything is their abandonment of the quick-release on their ratchet heads. ok, so snap-on have brought back a couple of models after having dropped them completely for a few years, but the point is, have none of their management team ever /used/ a ratchet? have they never /spoken/ to someone who has? because there's nothing like a nice shiny chrome socket and an oily hand for making a socket swap impossible. quick-release solves that immediately.

oh, and the new generation of quick-releases that snap-on /did/ finally bring back SUCK. their release button sticks out way too far, is far too easy to press, and is much too big. absolutely no connection between design and usage whatsoever.

NY RUST. Even with heat and lube some fasteners just don't want to come loose.

That was the reason for the HF set. Had a 1/2 drive rail and ratchet wander away a couple years ago. Was VERY pissed.

The set I have from HF actually fit pretty well. Plus with the rust and crud I have no qualms about driving a socket on as needed. If it breaks I just wander in and they replace it. When you consider that I can buy the complete set from HF for the price of the ratchet & the lack of high dollar logo also means they don't wander off.

I know the one guy started telling folks that he wouldn't replace tools without the original receipt. Guess the company logo stamped into the tools wasn't enough! Warranty stuff is ALWAYS a PIA. With fuel costs and more people buying less the margins are getting thin.

I was talking to a shop about 50 miles away this AM and he says that he has a great truck there. Told me to box up the busted stuff and bring it over and they will get it replaced till we get a truck back local. The big advantage to SO/Mac/Matco/Cornwell was always that the tools came to you.

I wonder how they handle broken stuff online? I know they don't sell much of the diagnostics and such online, they refer you to a truck.

I LOVE new vehicles that haven't started rotting. Bolts and nuts that come free with just a pull. No rust/dirt/paint chips/ body filler falling out while your trying to get out the damn rust welded bolts.

One of the reasons why I think they should rewrite the damn books with a set of specs for new/southern vehicles and one for northern rot prone locations. Especially areas that require multiple levels of part removal to get to the actual piece. That or use real world worst case numbers. Nothing like having a book time for exhaust manifold removal that is less than what it will take you to drill out the broken ones...

good question!

i generally buy online unless i need something urgently. no different to "once every week or two" truck visits and a lot more convenient if you want to comparison shop, which i think is important.

the dirty little secret is that salt is vastly over-used and pretty much pointless if the correct tires are employed. but it sure as little apples helps detroit.

kalifornistan not only has the benefits of little/no salt, but fabulous old cars from the 50's, 60's and 70's in pretty much original condition. although the detroit tentacles reach out on newer cars by way of emissions regs that keep being moved. my 89 now has to pass 2006 smog specs. that is utter b.s.

Have a fastener that could get damaged? Need to apply a lot of force? That's not where you use most HF tools. Maybe it's just me because I have HF stuff as second sets and such, but to me it's about using the right tool for the job.

For me, a quality tool has always been the right tool for the job. A poorly fitting, cheap one can incrementally damage a fastener head with its every use. I don't use poor quality tools period and have never owned a Harbor Freight item.

I was a mechanic for many years in Chicago, so I got to see both sides of this. My absolute favorite part was when those specks of rusty metal would fall off the exhaust, right onto your eyeball. There should have been add-on time for getting your eyes cleaned out. Another favorite was trying to get the axle nuts off of those earlier FWD cars (Eldo's, etc.). I do not miss that stuff.

We should have a poll. How many fires did you start with that torch when you were trying to remove rusted fasteners?

Then how can you say they are so poor fitting if you've never had one? They don't fit poorly for what they are IMO. I've not had one damage anything. Do they feel the best in my hand? No. But for those tools which at the price of a name brand top quality made-in-usa or even craftsman I live without? They are just fine. Every tool grade has its place.

I recently had to replace the timing belt in my FWD car. I had some time ago picked up a HF engine support bar on sale. It worked perfectly for the task of supporting the engine to get the motor mount out and in during the belt replacement. I felt much more comfortable with this than doing it by supporting the engine with a jack from underneath. I could use the correct tool for the job, be it a cheap one instead of going without, as I would have with the nicer made-in-USA ones. I might not use that support bar again for ages, there's no reason to shell out for top of the line.

When i had a stuck pinch bolt on one of my Taurus, my bro in law kindly helped with the torch. I got the dam thing loose finally, but the rubber boot on my CV joint now had a different shape to it and a strange rubber smell permeated the area (whoops)

that job cost me another CV shaft to finish

I said that I've never bought or used them. I've inspected and fitted and often found those, that others had, sorely lacking visually and dimensionally, although I'd consider employing some in a pinch, for those that bore a part number and provided a good enough fit, for those that did not, I would not.

A qualifier of the left had compliment brigade, as in "(s)he doesn't sweat much for a fat ass". I don't buy into the idea of purchase and use based on a sliding scale of how poorly they perform.

That you bothered to notice or verify.

If that place can be the scrap iron bin or garbage heap, I agree.

I, for one, never advocated an exclusive use of "top of the line" tools, those are terms I didn't use. My argument was about my prohibition of the use of cheap, poorly fitting, low quality tools.

Again, do you have a limitless amount of money you can use for tools? For me, like most people, there is question of economics involved, and I have the money that if I wanted to allocate to spending thousands upon thousands could buy snap on tools. But I'd never get those many thousands of use out of them. The cheapest set of HF tools I have is for use as an emergency trunk set. It's not great. But it's a set of better-than-nothing tools that isn't attractive to theft. I have some of their better grade polished stuff and the only problem I have with them is how they feel in my hand and some cosmetics. Fit seems as good as any other wrenches I have.

For giggles I grabbed a 10mm HF pittsburg polished wrench. 10.20 mm on my calipers. The SK 10mm on my desk, 10.10mm. If that 0.1mm means that much to you, it's your money. I know that .1mm isn't going to mean anything to damaging a fastener. I doubt snap on is holding 0.1mm wrench to wrench. On the other hand the SK feels a lot nicer in my hand. That's where I find the difference.

So now you're back at being insulting.

This is non-responsive. I suppose you have limitless money to spend on tools? Even tools you might use only once?

And my point is all those things are not always together in the same package. There's a good number of poorly fitting low quality tools that aren't cheap for instance.

Wow, a post that I 100% agree with from JB.

But if you are of the mindset that you are going to buy a new car every

3-5 years anyway the extra tax $$ you spend on salt, trucks, and drivers probably is a better deal than a set of Blizzaks and a dedicated set of rims.

However... I will say this, that I would far rather drive, say, an old Porsche 944 (to pick a completely random car with which I have no experience) on good winter tires in a snowstorm, given that the snow isn't so severe that the vehicle would get physically high-centered, than any new AWD or 4WD vehicle with near-bald all seasons, which seems to be the winter weapon of choice for many people, sadly. I don't know how so many people missed that portion of Automotive Education 101, but if you don't have any tread on your tires, you're not going anywhere in the snow.

Wait, what? You can't move the bar like that, to my knowledge there's nowhere that would require a vehicle to pass emissions standards for a MY newer than that of manufacture, unless it's had an engine swap.

nate

But that just cleans off the decades of caked on grease, so it's a good thing!

nate

No secret to me. NY State DOT mixed the sand/salt for years. Now 99% of the time they dump raw salt. The "sand" they are using now is more like bank run gravel, in the past you would get a blasted windshield after a few years, now it's like being in a damn shooting gallery with all the rocks bouncing around.

BUT the air is so much cleaner now..... I mean GEE you can almost see the Bridge from the bay now ;-)

NY follows the same smog laws. SUCKs.