Dealer/OEM Tools

Just a quick question....

Seems that in a lot of cases when working on Fords, many procedures require a special tool to uninstall or install a certain component or align a mechanism for assembly, etc. Note the recent thread about the Mondeo brakes. Years ago, I recall buying a set of tools once for removing the fuel filters on an F250 (but later borrowed a different set for a Taurus), I remember once using a special tool on a mid-90s Crown Victoria differential...on and on... Most of these tools can be bought from the dealership, but I don't know if that's the only place to get them. I didn't work on other makes as often, but I don't remember having to pick up anything "special" to work on Toyotas, Nissans, GMs or such.

Are other auto manufacturers as "tool crazy" as FoMoCo?

Thanks

-phaeton

Reply to
phaeton
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.. working on Fords, many procedures require a special tool to install a component or align a mechanism. I bought a set of tools once for removing F250 fuel filters and a special tool for a mid-90s CV differential. Most tools can be bought from the Ford dealership. I don't know if that's the only place.

I don't remember having to pick up anything "special" to work on Toyotas, Nissans, GMs or such. Are other auto manufacturers as "tool crazy" as FoMoCo? __________________________________________________

The auto parts stores all have displays of handy, rarely-needed special tools, such as special bolts, fuel-line connector releases, brake spring tools, etc. I have found tools there for GM, Ford and Chrysler work. Some tools are so rarely needed they are only available from the dealer.

As for Fords: A $5.50 special tool is required to remove the radio from my 97 F250. It has 4 rods with balls on their ends, to be stuck into 4 holes beside the radio to release it. I am still steamed about this "tool crazy" design. If anyone knows how to get the radio out without buying the tool, please let me know. AutoZone sells the tool but does not lend it.

Best regards to all RATers.

Rodan.

Reply to
Rodan

they all tend to be, to some degree. fortunately, most of the tool manufacturers pick up on this stuff fairly quickly (if the auto manufacturers let them), so we're not in the dark for too long. the best tool manufacturers to go to find those special tools are snap-on, mac, matco, cornwell, etc. the downside to these guys are that they sell directly to repair shops via trucks. they might have online shoping, but i haven't checked into that.

Reply to
dsguy

I wasn't going to mention how 'silly' these tools were, but well.... ;-)

The special tool I used on the differential was a piece of pipe with an angled piece of steel welded to the middle. $35, used it once on a job that paid me $40

bleh.

I didn't realize the parts stores have these now. I'm a Ford guy (typically, though I tend to love all cars in general) but if I'm going to buy a race car maybe I should get into something that's less "tooly", if you take my meaning. ;)

-phaeton

Reply to
phaeton

Just did this on my brother's '95 F-150. Getcha 4 nails that fit into the holes . Push them in in until you hit resistance. (spring clips mounted on radio). Push in about 1/2" to 3/4" more. Push the heads of all the nails sideways towards the side windows while pulling the radio out. Might take 2 people.

Reply to
Steve Walker

Lemme get this straight...

You're complaining about a $5.50 tool that turns a multi dozen fastener removal/ bezel removal, possibly drop the steering column, stripped screws, broken / scratched trim, etc. into what amounts to a 30 second slide it out of the dash job?

Reply to
aarcuda69062

Its common knowledge that Ford, Lincoln, Mercury are much harder to work on than other cars. Even simple repairs take long time because you have to remove something else to get rid of it.

Replacing the thermostat on a Ford V8 shops charge extra because of an extra hour required to do it. They have to take off distributor to get it out. On my Nissan it was a 15 minute job to replace thermostat.

This is one of the reasons they probably deserve to go bankrupt. What comes around goes around.

Reply to
J J

I'm going to go out on a limb here based on your nick'. You wouldn't by any chance be a volkswagen fan, would you?

The absolute worst car for special tools was a '89 VW Fox that I had for a few years. I picked up a copy of the offical VW approved repair guide - very helpful, btw - and the thing read more like a tool catalog than an instruction manual. Step 1 - go to dealer and get special tools 123-x, 456-y, 789-z and rs-00-444 Step 1 (alt) - swear and throw things as you hurt yourself or try to figure out what the special tools would have looked like because you are too cheap to do the real Step 1.

I can understand when an O2 sensor or a fuel or AC line needs a special tool, but when half the engineering that goes into the car ends up in the dealer tech's tool chest, that's a problem. Most of the special tools that other cars need aren't unique to that make and model, just to the job.

Here's an example. The top of the front shock towers had this combo piece of hardware where a bolt with a hex socket passed through a nut. This was what set which way the bottom of the shock pointed. You could try to do this with a standard wrench and hex key, but to really get things done you needed the socket VW made with window cutout of the side so that you could hold the alignment steady while you torque the bolt.

Matthew

Reply to
mandtprice

Are you serious? Every car has its own repair quirks. For any given vehicle there will be jobs that are easy and jobs that seem to be way more difficult than they should be. Some kinds of vehicles are guaranteed to be more work, vans and compacts come to mind.

I just did the water pump on my wife's Camry. Step one is to remove the alternator, power steering reservoir, cruise control, right motor mount, right front wheel and fender skirt. The next step is to remove the crank shaft pulley, timing belt cover and timing belt. Give me a dead water pump in my Taurus any day, or either the Luminas or Impala that I drove before that.

Matthew

Reply to
mandtprice

Hmmm. "Its" got me coming and going...or going and coming...whichever.

Reply to
cavedweller

Yes and no. :-)

I actually first 'picked up' the moniker of "phaeton" from the old Phaetons Ford built in the 1930s ("Phaeton" is actually a body/carriage type, not necessarily a model name. Many auto manufacturers used it in the 30s, and they lifted the name from a horse carriage type common in the 1800s).

I've been fascinated with the name since somewhere in the 1980s, and have 'used' it in various incarnations since (Started a rock band in the 90s called "Phaeton", etc). Up until VW built the "Phaeton" (of which btw, is not a true Phaeton by 1930's definition), most people on the Internet thought I was referencing Greek Mythology (Phaeton was the son of Helios, the sun God. He borrowed his dad's car and wrecked it).

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But since then, I get asked if I'm a VW fan a lot. I really like the air-cooled VWs from yore (Note that they have long ceased to exist here in the Corrosion States, though) . I think it's really cool that VW sells diesel passenger cars in N. America. There needs to be more manufacturers offering diesels here, IMHO. And also note that both VW and Mercedes have completely 'defanged' the diesel. All the noise and smell that everyone complains about is virtually gone. They're a far cry from the big diesel GM cars of the 80s that everyone seemed to loathe.

So... that's probably a helluvalot more answer than you bargained for :-)

That cracks me up. "A tool catalogue" is what I felt about some Ford docs too. I'll disagree with the post above about Fords being "well known to be hard to work on", however. I think I've had the greatest displeasure of working on cars when it came to wiring on British cars, carburetion/intakes on certain Chrysler products and just about anything forward of the steering wheel on cars made by Subaru.

Disregarding that, a Subaru Wagon will likely be my next New Car Purchase.

Reply to
phaeton

A couple comments on the "special service tool" thing.

First and foremost is that whining about having to spend $10 for a special tool or $100 for the service manual to service your $20k+ vehicle seems silly to me. These are absolutely negligible costs, you'll spend vastly more on oil changes and other routine service items over the service life of the vehicle so get some perspective on the nominal costs for the documentation and tools needed to do things yourself and save labor costs.

Next up is the tools themselves, the "official" tools from SPX and others tend to be a bit pricey, but are also very durable for commercial shop use. There are off brand versions of most of them which are available at auto parts stores which are cheaper and just fine for occasional use.

As someone noted, some of the tools are very simple, just a few parts welded together. In the older official factory manuals they gave full instructions for fabricating these yourself in your shop and indeed some were not available any other way. I believe the more recent manuals still have a few examples of this.

Pete C.

Reply to
Pete C.

No complaints at all about buying a service manual.

It just seems odd that every other car manufacturer in the world would engineer something the same way for 100 years, but yet the one you are working is engineered in a certain manner that requires a specific tool that may or may not be useful on any other make or model. This requirement is especially stinging when this unusual engineering feat doesn't garner the vehicle any obvious benefit in durability, reliability, adjustment or performance.

Otherwise, sorry.

-phaeton

Reply to
phaeton

Well - the drain bolt on 2004+ Subaru manual transmissions and auto tranny-version front differentials requires a T-70 Torx head to remove. I ended up buying one online for $29 made by a German company (Stahlwille). At the time, I couldn't find any other retailer that had it. I even rushed out to a Snap-On truck when it was going near my office in Downtown Berkeley, California (there are a few small repair shops). I sent an email to Lisle Tool, and the responder said they weren't even aware that any automakers were using a T-70.

I think it's easier to find now, but I can't help but think it was a deliberate attempt to keep people from doing it themselves. A repair shop would probably be willing to spend on such a tool. Lisle now makes one, and for over $20 less than I paid. :-(

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Reply to
y_p_w

"phaeton" wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com:

A phaeton is an open car with a collapsible roof that attaches to the top of the windshield. It has neither rollup windows nor side screens.

Reply to
TeGGeR®

Get used to Torx drivers. Torx is replacing slot, Phillips, Allen and other fasterner configurations slowly by surely, due to excellent strip resistance and much higher torque capacity. The US industry auto industry has been using Torx for smaller fasteners since the '80s, notably Chrsyler.

Reply to
DeserTBoB

I know Torx is everywhere, including the headliner anchor bolts on Honda vehicles. However - picking a Torx T70 was a piece of work. Snap-On now sells one for $35:

I know the professional mechanic probably can justify the Snap-On part, but I find that Lisle makes decent tools for the DIY'er. I know T70 was defined and there were the occasional manufacturers, but it took a while for the more available tool brands to start selling them. Oh here's the plug:

And here's my T70 socket:

Reply to
y_p_w

That's likely the stubbiest torx bit I've seen. I guess thats a good thing for a monster like the T-70.

Toyota MDT in MO

Reply to
Comboverfish

It's a little over 2 inches long. The Snap-On version is listed at 3.5 inches. I could imagine that it could slip easily.

Reply to
y_p_w

unfortunately, the torx bit tools they're selling aren't capable of handling the torque load that's being used on them. for example the bottom four bolts on the side cover a GM 4t60&65e front wheel drive trans are so tight, i break the torx socket almost every time. i use mac & snap on tools almost exclusively. i agree, though, that torx bolts are much better for smaller stuff than philips or straight.

Reply to
dsguy

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