Re: GM pushing for HYDROGEN in China



It's a waste. Perhaps the Chinese intend to produce hydrogen from hydroelectricity, but it remains very awkward to distribute, dispense and store.
Fuel cells may have a future in cars, but only in closed-cycle form as battery replacements in hybrids.
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In being of bellicose mind posted:

You're more than a bit behind the curve.
http://www.questairinc.com/investor_relations/press_releases/archived _releases/2002/11-15.htm
http://www.airproducts.com/pressroom/companynews/current/areaofintere st/markets/hydrogenfuelcells/0001_21may03.htm
http://www.airproducts.com/pressroom/companynews/current/geography/wo rldwide/03222_19may03.htm
--
~~Philip "Never let school interfere
with your education - Mark Twain"
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non-sequitor and opinion,

Much more likely to be coal gassification, hopefully with mineral sequestration of the CO2.

It has a reasonable storage and range, not all that awkward, and many developments are expected in that field. It also should be pointed out that the Chinese don't have the 'traditions of waste' that drive opposition to lightweight or short range vehicles.

So you pontificate. As an opinion it is worth what we paid for it.
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Good point.
From: http://www.britannica.com/eb/article?euc046&tocid=0&query=producer%20gas&c t producer gas
mixture of flammable gases (principally carbon monoxide and hydrogen) and nonflammable gases (mainly nitrogen and carbon dioxide) made by the partial combustion of carbonaceous substances, usually coal, in an atmosphere of air and steam. Producer gas has lower heating value than other gaseous fuels, but it can be manufactured with relatively simple equipment; . /// See also: http://en2.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gasification
This is an interesting process because it can even be done 'in situ' (no mining) or use biomass. The reaction C + H2O(g) -> H2 + CO is endothermic so air is required to maintain combustion. Additional heat is required to generate superheated steam. A cryogenic plant would be required to separate the various product gases in order to obtain pure H2 for urban auto use. The only safe way to dispose of the large quantities of CO would be to burn it and to recapture the heat generated.
CO2 is of value to oil producers. It could be injected into old oil wells for enhanced oil production. CO2 can also be used in greenhouses to accelerate plant growth.
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As a consumer, my own opinion is that I have no interest in hydrogen powered cars and will never purchase one.
--
Roger Blake
(Subtract 10 for email.)
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wrote:

Good for you. Bicycles are much healthier. It will be interesting to see what your opinon is after the decline in cheap oil forces most everyone else over to hydrogen powered cars.
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You must be very young and stoopid -- another data point proving that children should be seen and not heard.
--
Roger Blake
(Subtract 10 for email.)
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In wrote:

Roger... in a text medium.... everyone is seen ... and not heard. ;-)
--
~~Philip "Never let school interfere
with your education - Mark Twain"
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Snicker. What makes you think the Energy Industry will give you a choice?
What's your choice now?
Snicker....
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Vendicar Decarian wrote:

Gasoline, diesel, propane, hybrid, natural gas, solar, or build your own. Stanley Steamers were very popular until oil became plentiful. Your choices are not limited by "the Energy Industry."
MTV

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Yet your very denial proves it is.
Thank you for illustrating your intellectual failure.
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Well... all the food you eat is controlled by the FOOD (meat, dairy, agri-business, etc) industry.....
--
~~Philip "Never let school interfere
with your education - Mark Twain"
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Good observation.
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So it is Nuddly. So Nuddly, when are you going to name the plastics you stated are suitable for a mass produced ICE powered automotive exhaust system?
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, when are you going to name the plastics

http://www.buscom.com/archive/P051U.html
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In

Busywork. Name the cost effective plastic that can be economically formed into a conventional exhaust manifold shape .... one that will withstand many many thermal cycles to 1200 degrees.
--
~~Philip "Never let school interfere
with your education - Mark Twain"
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700 Degrees F falls well short of the mark for exhaust systems.
And there is no metion of any specific plastics that can be take exhaust system temperatures let alone those having processing capability to be formed into those parts.
You still can't back up your claim nuddly.
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Brent P wrote:

There was a company in Kingston, Ontario, Canada that was developing a plastic ICE! I know, because my brother did some work for them as an outside contractor. I don't know what the current state of development is/was or what has happened to them, my brother has since moved on to other things.
Dan
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Any details? I could see it work with metal inserts and metal parts where it counts, using a polymer for weight reduction elsewhere. Other than the combustion chamber itself and the exhaust pretty much the rest of the engine could be done with one polymer or another. Longevity (not to mention the economics) is another question however.
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Brent P wrote:

Before I posted the previous, I did a quick search on the web but couldn't find fast. (I do have to work sometimes). As I recall the "stories" I heard from my brother, the heads, comb. chambers, everything, was some type of polymer. Which may explain why I can't find anything on it right now (ie it didn't work).
But I also seem to recall that the problems were production related rather than functional. This was 5-10 years ago or more, so maybe newer methods could help bring it back. Anybody got an extra 15 or 20 million they want to give me. It sure would be a lot more fun than what I'm doing now!
Dan
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