Re: Import rotors vs new

I requested an indepth comparison from Raybestos as to why their rotors are superior to the imports that are 60% less. While I was looking for metallurgical and tolerance differences, here's mostly what I got:

Cooling fins on vented rotors. When you slice these apart you see a big difference in the fins. The OE fins are curved in varying ways, assymetrically in most cases. Each application can be different. No modern vehicles have straight radial vanes, although a few still have uniformly spaced curved, ar angled vanes. The vane design is to enhance cooling, but the assimetrical design cancels out noise and reduces squealing. Raybestos matches (and supplies) the OEM. The imported rotors all appear to have radial, equally spaced vanes. This would explain why they sometimes squeal. Also the straight, radial vanes do not pull air through them as efficiently.

The only other noticeable difference is that the center hole chamfer is

30-degrees on OE, and 45 degrees on most cheap imports.

If I get anything else I'll post

Rex in Fort Worth

Reply to
Rex B
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Most of it is in the metallurgy. Machining that you describe can be gotten around by ordering blanks.

Andrew

Rex B wrote:

Reply to
Andrew Paule

To get the info you want, you really need to get on the phone and stay on it until you get through to the engineering department. Otherwise, requests like yours get shunted to the Public Relations/Customer Service department, which just repeats the copy from their promo materials.

DS

Reply to
Daniel J Stern

Uh huh. And does Raybestos sell these directional rotors for left/right side applications, or simply make do with one side having enhanced cooling, while the other side overheats?

Reply to
Mark Allread

Raybestos premium rotors are also imports. (PG Plus are made in Canada). They come pre-warped right out of the box and if you return whem within 90 days you get a brand new warped set right out of the box.

Reply to
davefr

Have a set of "made in china" rotors on the S-10 (4x4). Turned them once in 5 sets of pads. $16.00 ea. when I was buying from the warehouse below jobber. Sometimes worrying about metallurgy & quality & fins & all the other technical bull$hit just doesn't make sense. If the quality ones are so much more $$$$, run 2 or 3 sets of cheap ones & still come out ahead. As posted above, they are probably made in the same 3rd world country as the cheapos anyway. Good luck.

Reply to
PA-ter

|Raybestos premium rotors are also imports. (PG Plus are made in |Canada). They come pre-warped right out of the box and if you return |whem within 90 days you get a brand new warped set right out of the |box.

I guess that 302 or 351 engine in your '69 Mustang was an import too, because it was made in Windsor, Ontario? Probably by commuting American autoworkers.

Around here, the better shops use Raybestos unless the customer insists that price is the only consideration. They know they don't have have as many comebacks. We sell both, and have few rotor defects in either brand. I attribute a lot of that to customer expectations. Rex in Fort Worth

Reply to
Rex B

I certainly would not ever put any made in China parts in my car (if I have a choice). The Canadian rotors are good and cheap. And the ones I've gotten are not pre-warped.

Reply to
Childfree Scott

|> Have a set of "made in china" rotors on the S-10 (4x4). Turned them |> once in 5 sets of pads. $16.00 ea. when I was buying from the |> warehouse below jobber. | | |I certainly would not ever put any made in China parts in my car (if I |have a choice). The Canadian rotors are good and cheap. And the ones |I've gotten are not pre-warped.

In fairness I should point out that there are several Canadian companies that bring in oriental parts and package them under their own label and also private labels. We trade with probably the biggest, buying chassis parts and FWD axles. Their quality is as good or better than the best-known national chassis parts brand - which we also carry. The price is about 60% cheaper. Point is, it may say "Canada" but it may be sourced in the orient. Rex in Fort Worth

Reply to
Rex B

Yup, what you said. I've worked for a major national auto service chain and for a major national parts company. I can read invoices, and I also pay attention to the news. For better or worse (I'm really _NOT_ making any political statement here!) this is what NAFTA has done for us. It seems that one of the niceties of Canadian labeling rules is that as long as a product is 'finished' it can bear the 'made in canada' label. Finishing can be as little as sticking it in the box. One company rep had told me about being in one of the Canadian facilities that does exactly that, reboxes rotors and ships them south.

I also have compared well known US Made to Canadian Boxed parts and have found a major difference in rotors and drums. The US com- pany's rotors were packaged much nicer and didn't need a gallon of goo to keep them rust free, that's because they're made of a higher quality steel. A _LOT_ of the import rotors have high concentrations of impurities in them, that's where the rusting starts. A good example is the Dodge Neon; I've seen rotors with holes big enough to put my thumb through them, caused by RUST! I've also found that the US Made rotors had much finer machining, less deep grooves, and had a better 'swirl' finish. This leads to less noise problems, the pad/ shoes are better able to 'seat themselves or 'burn in' to the rotor. This is also why Neons are so horribly beset with noise, I've rarely come across a Neon that didn't have brake noise. Also, the US made rotors tend to have much finer tolerances, I've actually taken this ser- iously enough to start measuring them for a while a few years back! Inevitably the US Made rotors were within onbe or two ten thousandths (1/10,000) of each other, whereas there were a number of 'Canadian' reboxers that varied nearly 5 thousandths between them.

There are differences! The question is more one of whether or not you are personally willing to pay for them. And there's a lot to consider in this too. Are you going to be a maniac driver who warps rotors no matter what the quality? Are you willing to pay double the price to keep a fellow countryman on the assembly line? Do you really consider the niceties of the US Made v the Canadian Reboxers to be worth about double the cost?

That's really the decision here. It's not necessarily whether one part is 'better' than the other, it's really more one of whether or not you feel the price difference is worth the difference in quality.

Me, I stick to brand names. In some cases this means I get foreign made stuff, sometimes US Made. But I trust the brand name and the counter guy who's willling to stick behind it, and the experience that I have had with that brand. In some cases I feel that even that doesn't matter and cost can be an overiding factor, sometimes it's convenience over that.

I think the best way to respond to you is this: "Cheaper, faster, better, you can have any TWO but NOT all three!" As we can see, even NASA had to figger that one out the hard way.

Hope this helps...

-andy

Reply to
Andy Hill

Excellent information, Andy. Good to have some first-person information.

Thanks

On 15 Sep 2003 20:22:56 -0700, snipped-for-privacy@702com.net (Andy Hill) wrote:

| snipped-for-privacy@REMOVEtxol.net (Rex B) wrote in message news:... |> On 15 Sep 2003 09:17:59 -0700, scott snipped-for-privacy@my-deja.com (Childfree Scott) wrote: | |> In fairness I should point out that there are several |> Canadian companies that bring in oriental parts |> and package them under their own label and also |> private labels. We trade with probably the biggest, |> buying chassis parts and FWD axles. Their quality |> is as good or better than the best-known national |> chassis parts brand - which we also carry. The price |> is about 60% cheaper. |>

|> Point is, it may say "Canada" but it may be sourced |> in the orient. Rex in Fort Worth | |Yup, what you said. I've worked for a major national auto service chain |and for a major national parts company. I can read invoices, and I also |pay attention to the news. For better or worse (I'm really _NOT_ making |any political statement here!) this is what NAFTA has done for us. It |seems that one of the niceties of Canadian labeling rules is that as |long as a product is 'finished' it can bear the 'made in canada' label. |Finishing can be as little as sticking it in the box. One company rep |had told me about being in one of the Canadian facilities that does |exactly that, reboxes rotors and ships them south. | |I also have compared well known US Made to Canadian Boxed parts |and have found a major difference in rotors and drums. The US com- |pany's rotors were packaged much nicer and didn't need a gallon of |goo to keep them rust free, that's because they're made of a higher |quality steel. A _LOT_ of the import rotors have high concentrations |of impurities in them, that's where the rusting starts. A good example |is the Dodge Neon; I've seen rotors with holes big enough to put my |thumb through them, caused by RUST! I've also found that the US |Made rotors had much finer machining, less deep grooves, and had |a better 'swirl' finish. This leads to less noise problems, the pad/ |shoes are better able to 'seat themselves or 'burn in' to the rotor. |This is also why Neons are so horribly beset with noise, I've rarely |come across a Neon that didn't have brake noise. Also, the US made |rotors tend to have much finer tolerances, I've actually taken this ser- |iously enough to start measuring them for a while a few years back! |Inevitably the US Made rotors were within onbe or two ten thousandths |(1/10,000) of each other, whereas there were a number of 'Canadian' |reboxers that varied nearly 5 thousandths between them. | |There are differences! The question is more one of whether or not you |are personally willing to pay for them. And there's a lot to consider in |this too. Are you going to be a maniac driver who warps rotors no |matter what the quality? Are you willing to pay double the price to keep |a fellow countryman on the assembly line? Do you really consider the |niceties of the US Made v the Canadian Reboxers to be worth about |double the cost? | |That's really the decision here. It's not necessarily whether one part |is 'better' than the other, it's really more one of whether or not you feel |the price difference is worth the difference in quality. | |Me, I stick to brand names. In some cases this means I get foreign |made stuff, sometimes US Made. But I trust the brand name and the |counter guy who's willling to stick behind it, and the experience that I |have had with that brand. In some cases I feel that even that doesn't |matter and cost can be an overiding factor, sometimes it's convenience |over that. | |I think the best way to respond to you is this: "Cheaper, faster, better, |you can have any TWO but NOT all three!" As we can see, even NASA |had to figger that one out the hard way. | |Hope this helps... | | |-andy

Rex in Fort Worth

Reply to
Rex B

|Have a set of "made in china" rotors on the S-10 (4x4). Turned them |once in 5 sets of pads. $16.00 ea. when I was buying from the |warehouse below jobber. Sometimes worrying about metallurgy & quality |& fins & all the other technical bull$hit just doesn't make sense. If |the quality ones are so much more $$$$, run 2 or 3 sets of cheap ones |& still come out ahead. As posted above, they are probably made in the |same 3rd world country as the cheapos anyway. Good luck.

For 90% of the drivers on the road, the imports do fine. If you use your brakes more than most - mountain driving, towing, track events - it makes a difference. Rex in Fort Worth

Reply to
Rex B

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