The cellphone paradox - where are all the accidents?

I'd only agree with the idea that *some* cell phone usage while driving may be distracting enough to cause an accident, so there would then be another subset of statistics defining different usages of a cell phone. From that point it might be determined how much cell phone usage had to do with distracted driving which would make the overall percentage even smaller widening the gap between accidents related to cell phone use and all accidents.

IOW, I more or less agree with you, but for more specific reasons.

Reliable but not very complete. How many accidents were caused by distracted driving? How many were not caused by distracted driving? How many accidents would have happened if cars didn't have ABS? How many additional accidents happened only because cars had ABS? How many accidents would have been avoided if drivers had been able to see past the enlarged rear pillars on newer cars?

All we have data on are accidents..... we have no data at all on accidents that didn't happen but would have under other circumstances. And the data we do have aren't enough to tell us about what caused all the accidents there were. This is what I mean by there being so many different inputs.

--scott

I have been posting (not here but in other newsgroups) that same question for several years and no one can answer it but they ALWAYS attack me for asking it. What you have stated is the $64K question ... if cell phone use is as bad as driving drunk, etc, etc, and if cell phone use has gone from essentially zero percent of drivers in

1985 to at least 50% of drivers in 2015, WHERE ARE ALL THE ACCIDENTS????

The closest thing to an answer I get is "well, if people didn't have cell phones the rate of accidents would have dropped much more then it has. But that's not realistic. There are simply too many people using cell phones to think that if it was the problem the alarmist portray it would not have caused a spike in accident statistics that was noticeable.

Also, I strongly question most of the studies that purport to show how cell phones "distract' people. They usually put a person in a simulator, tell them they MUST talk on a cell phone, and then when THEY know it's the most inopportune time for a 'surprise' they flash a cow on the road ahead and the simulating driver hits it. They ignore that in the REAL world, most drivers are not simply stuck on their cell phone completely ignoring everything around them as if in a trance waiting for a guy in the back seat to hit the button for EMERGENCY at the worst possible moment.

They also have no good idea whether cell phone use has simply replaced prior distractions. It may well be that the person on the cell phone who IS distracted is the same person who 15 years ago would have been fiddling with their CDs and CD player trying to select a new CD to play, or would have been fiddling with the radio looking for a better music station, etc and would have been equally distracted and would have been equally adding to the accident statistics.

Then radios in cars should be illegal and the drivers compartment should be enclosed and soundproof so they can't interact with passengers.

What percentage of those accidents are phone related? Accidents may be down, but take out cellphone related instances and they may have gone down another 10% or 20%

There is no reason to think that because a driver was using a cell phone that the cell phone caused the accident. They accident may well have happened no matter what the driver was doing. Undoubtedly some accidents are the result of distraction with cell phones being one of MANY things that distract drivers. But the mere use of a cell phone is not proof that the cell phone was the cause anymore then the mere presence of a radio turned up loud is proof that the radio caused the accident. What you cited is what you would expect to find by any group that makes their living off "safety". They are going to be looking for ANYTHING that would expand their empire and control over others.

I suspect that's true for most people. It's not true for all the bogus simulator studies though. In the studies used to damn cell phone use they make the people answer the cell phones and then purposely throw up "emergencies" shortly afterwards.

Yeah, now they do it hands free. So now that people can't see it they no longer have that bug up their butt over it. Distracted driving has always been a cause, all that's changed is what it is that's distracting the drivers. And if cell phone use and texting is so horrible, why do we allow the police to drive around all day talking on their radios and typing on their mobile data terminals? Funny how when outlawing teh "distraction" would interfere with the police state suddenly it's not important to outlaw it.

Then there's the "familiarity" issue. ANYTHING that's new is going to be somewhat distracting. When I first started using a two way radio in a moving car it was very distracting - which channel did the call come in on? got to push which button before replying? Need to turn up (or down) the volume... Where's that list of call numbers versus names so I can look up Joe's call sign and on and on. Very distracting at first. Then you learn it and it's second nature. If "things are going on" you simply don't answer the radio or cell phone and if you are on it (radio or phone) you get off it when the outside inputs pick up. Yeah, it's not perfect but we didn't outlaw radios and passengers, we didn't outlaw two way radios, we didn't outlaw CDs, we didn't make eating in a car illegal, but cell phones OH THEY ARE THE DEVIL!!!!! Note, I'm not addressing Texting... that's not a 'distraction', it is literally a separate task from driving and I would expect properly done research would show it's in a whole different class of hazards from talking on a phone. But that's just an expectation.

And unlike the explosion of cell phone use, there has been no explosion of *Safety Innovation X* that massively reshaped teh driving environment. To the contrary, the "easy" innovations were long ago made and what's done today is nibbling around the edges looking for anything that will shave even a small percent off the accident statistics.

Looking here

I calculated % increase year over year. From roughly 1986 to 1996 there was a 50% year over year increase in cell phone ownership. Was there anything comparable in accident rate increases? Of course not. The paradox remains

I have to agree with you, as would everyone else, that *most* cellphone usage while driving does *not* contribute to accidents.

However, most of us feel (including me) that cellphone usage, overall, should *increase* the accident rate (since cellphone *ownership* is almost 100% in the USA for people of driving age).

The paradox looms even taller if cellphone usage is as distracting as the studies show (i.e., at the level of drunk driving).

So, the more strenuous we make the argument that cellphone use is distractingly dangerous, the *larger* the paradox looms to slap us in the face.

Where are these accidents?

Overall accident statistics for the USA are very reliable, since they are reported by police, insurance companies, and by individuals.

The numbers are high enough, and consistent enough, to make the error only a very small percentage.

You won't get *better* data that the census bureau data on accidents in the USA by state - and none are showing what we'd expect.

Hence the paradox. Where are the accidents?

This is exactly what I'd say also.

The more we try to prove that cellphone use while driving is dangerous, the more the cellphone paradox looms to slap us in the face.

Where are the accidents?

Yes. All we have that is reliable is the data on *all* accidents, state by state, and those are going down, year after year.

There isn't even a blip for the years that cellphones were starting to be used. It's the same declining accident rate (give or take a few) with no visible effect from cellphone use.

Hence the paradox.

I believe that if a huge number (essentially 100% of the drivers in the USA) *own* a cellphone, then a certain percentage of those people will be

*using* that cellphone while driving, and a certain percentage of those users will be *distracted* enough to cause accidents.

Since the numbers are so huge, and the numbers of accidents are so constant, you'd expect a huge increase in the number of accidents, or, if not huge, at least discernible.

But there is no increase. Accidents are steadily going down.

Hence the paradox. Where are the accidents?

This, at least, solves the paradox.

That always struck me as interesting also. How come it's safe for them, but not for the rest of us (who they are merely a population of).

As an aside, the government rarely abides by its own rules (but that's OT).

That may very well be the case, but taking a look at the numbers, the accidents seem to be *steadily* decreasing.

It would be nice though, to see two reliable charts plotted on top of each other.

1. Total accidents in the USA from the 50s to now, versus,
2. Total cellphone ownership in the USA over those same years.

I agree with you that the studies that show distracted driving to be tremendously dangerous *must* be flawed, for a bunch of reasons, but, one of them is that it just makes the paradox *worse*!

Let's assume, for a moment, that driving while distracted by cellphone use *is* as dangerous as the studies show.

Well then, the spike in accidents, as you noted, should at least be

*visible* (it should actually be tremendously visible!).

But it's not. Hence the paradox. Where are the accidents?

That's my wife in the car with me, even before cellphones existed. :)

It could be a *lot* of things, I agree. Hence the paradox.

I think nobody would disclaim that the cellphone ownership in the USA is close to 100% of the drivers (it would be nice to have that statistic, but, it must have skyrocketed in the past 10 years).

Also, nobody would say that cellphone use while driving makes you a

*better* driver.

Most of us (including me) would assume that cellphone use is yet another distraction, so, it should make us *worse* drivers.

But, then, why don't the overall accident statistics show that?

Can it be that the declining number drunk driving accidents you speak of

*exactly* cancel out the precipitously inclining cellphone distracted driving accidents?

It could happen. It might even be what *is* happening. But it seems a bit too convenient to accept, without further proof.

The paradox (whether we like it or not) exists.

There is no precipitous spike in accident rates in the USA over the same time period that cellphone ownership has grown precipitously.

I don't think it's a given that it would increase the accident rate because as people have gotten used to the technology, they've adjusted how they use it, as in, hands free devices and blue tooth technology built into cars that make the tech no more distracting than turning on a radio or playing music.

I highly doubt it's any more distracting than playing music might be.

Lost within the data, I imagine.