For the past few years, when I start the engine (97 Camry) after it's been off awhile, the exhaust is bluish-smoky for a few seconds. I took it to the dealer and they said it was caused by a tiny amount of oil seeping into the cylinders, due to a gasket leak or something. They quoted me $900 to fix it, but also said it probably wasn't worth the expense, as it was not progressive and no harm was being done. So I've lived with it for years.
But, just wondering, does anybody think switching to synthetic oil might lessen the smoking? Just a guess, but I believe the temperature tolerance is much higher with synthetic oil, so maybe that would make a difference? thanks -Fred
The stem seal was invented by Dana Corp in 1958. It prevents excess oil in the cylinder head from going into the combustion chamber but also meters the proper amount of oil to lubricate the valve stems. The intake and exhaust seals are different for this reason.
$900 for a stem seal set alone is way too much. Are they changing out the head gaskets at the same time? It would be cheaper to do it as a negotiated "package deal" during timing belt service. For example, a set of Fel-Pro stem seals SS72810 is about $30.99 and a Fel-Pro valve cover set VS50304R is $14.45 on rockauto.com. (BTW, Fel-Pro markets some great gaskets, their Multi-layer Steel head gaskets is best in class for instance.) Your average mechanic should be able to change 16 stem seals and new valve cover gasket set (with plug tube seals) for an extra hour's time during a timing belt service.
The stem seals seems to be a common problem on Toyotas. That's another reason for 3000 mile (dino) oil changes using a good filter like Purolator PureOne or Bosch Filtech. It also helps fight the engine sludge susceptible in these engines. I personally wouldn't use Toyota's filters shipped from Thailand.
awhile, the exhaust is bluish-smoky for a few seconds. I took it to the dealer
cylinders, due to a gasket leak or something. They quoted me $900 to fix it, but also said
was being done. So I've lived with it for years.
lessen the smoking? Just a guess, but I believe the temperature tolerance is much
The first place I took it, the Toyota dealer in Hagerstown, Maryland, quoted me $2000.00! The one in Tustin, California quoted the $900 and offered up I didn't really need it. So I guess the answers one gets depends on how knowledgeable one appears. Next time I have it in for the intermediate service I'll ask about a combo deal. thanks! -Fred
That's typical for a dealer. They'd do fair job and charge a lot. Likely you'd pay for a head set and timimg belt.
one appears.
Fair for the job, and they were honest.
900 would be a combo job. They'd replace the timing belt, the stem seals, and the related gaskets. If you're lucky, they'd throw in replacing the water pump at the same time.
If you're going to ask for a deal, ask what they'd charge to do just those things. If they even remotely think you know what you're talking about when you ask, you'll get a better price. (Sad, but true)
Leaking stem seals aren't good for the oxygen sensors and converter in the long run. So while even Toyota techs would say just leave them, I'd change them out during a timing job. Also, in a typical timing job, one would ask for a package deal involving the following components. Of course, dealer parts are higher.
(earlier
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prices for 3/5SFE) GATES TCK199 (kit of timing belt with two pulleys and instruction) $84.79 GATES Part # K030295 PS belt $4.32 GATES Part # K050435 Alt/AC $12.12 FEL-PRO TCS45641 Cam seal $4.11 FEL-PRO TCS45920 Crank seal $6.04 BCA Part # 221820 Oil pump seal $2.71 AISIN (Toyota #16110-79185) water pump $58.79 your local NAPA store has Airtex water pump FEL-PRO VS50304R valve cover gasket set $13.94
me $2000.00! The one in Tustin, California quoted the $900 and offered up I didn't
one appears. Next time I have it in for the intermediate service I'll ask about a
I have an '88 Supra with 200K on it that does this. I changed the oil with Castrol GTX High Mileage formula and after a couple thousand miles the problem (kinda) went away. Before if I parked the car for 4-5 days there would be a pretty good cloud behind the car on startup. Now the car has to sit for a couple weeks before I even see a puff of oil smoke.
I also have an '89 Mazda 626 that had smoking problems after sitting for a while. I used the same oil in that car and now have no trouble at startup. Seems to be working, but I am the 'leery' type, wondering if it's swelling the seals, what *ELSE* is it doing, so I run High Mileage for 3,000 miles and then use regular Castrol for 2 changes, then use the HM formula again. Seems to be working in those two cars quite well.
I bought a head gasket set for my 1991 Toyota Celica 3SGTE.
There are 2 types of valve stem seals. I assume one set for the inlet and the other set for the exhaust valves. In the original engine the taller (red) valve stem seals are fitted to the inlet valves and the shorter (green) ones are fitted to the exhaust valves.
Before I changed them, can someone confirm that the taller ones(red) are corrected fitted to the inlet valves and visa versa?
"Fred Exley" wrote in message news: snipped-for-privacy@corp.supernews.com...
Synthetic oil is not likely to help with this concern. What you are describing could be oil leaking past the valve guides. Apparently a common Toyota problem since two of them in the parking lot at my apartment do it as well. But, it could also be related to a poorly functioning PCV valve. Synthetic oil might actually make the start up smoke worse, since it is alleged to flow more freely when cold. Instead, you should consider one of the high mileage oils like Valvoline MaxLife, Mobil High Mileage, or Pennzoil High Mileage. These all claim to have ingredients that soften and swell seals ("condition seals") and this may reduce the start-up smoke.
If the problem is truly oil leaking past the valve guide seals and it is not too bad, I would agree with just letting the problem go. However, if you have a lot of leakage, the oil can contaminate and eventually ruin your catalytic converter. A small amount of oil won't hurt anything and will be burned up in the converter. The reason you see smoke initially is that the converter doesn't start working until it heats up which takes a short period of time after the engine is started. Once the converter is operating, it will burn up minor amounts of oil in the exhaust stream, eliminating the blue smoke. If the blue smoke is actually just a minor start up phenomenon, then ignoring it won't hurt anything, at least for a few more tens of thousand miles. The danger is that your engine is actually consuming significant amounts of oil all the time but the problem is hidden because the converter is burning up the oil so there is no blue smoke once the converter is hot. Do you know how much oil your car is consuming? Have you noticed sudden drops in the oil level after long trips? Actual oil consumption can be masked if you do a lot of short trip driving. Stuff (blowby gases) escapes past the rings and valve seals and ends up in the crankcase. This is mostly unburned hydrocarbons and water. If you do a lot of short trips and the engine never get really hot, this stuff can accumulate in the crankcase giving the impression that the car does not use any oil. However, when you take a long trip, and the oil get hot, most of this stuff will evaporate, making it seem as the car suddenly used a lot of oil in a short period of time.
If this was my car, I'd do the following:
Have the PCV valve replaced (I'll bet you never have)
Try one of the High Mileage Oils of the recommended viscosity
Monitor oil consumption
If the oil consumption is not reduced, you might try a thicker oil (like 15W40) assuming you are not in a particularly cold climate
If you detect excessive oil consumption (1 quart per 600 miles or greater), then you probably should have a professional mechanic do a more complete evaluation of the engine (wet/dry compression test, leak down test, etc.).
This problem is indeed pretty common on the Camrys but a Corolla? As CE said it must be a design problem with Toyota. After all, the stem seals are old tech, provided that the smoke isn't related to rings or PCV.
The seal conditioners do swell the seals. Different rubber formulations will react differently (some get shrunk! See link below).
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Maybe the best solution is to change the stem seals out every 2-3 timing belts, just like cam/crank seals, valve cover gaskets, PCV grommet, coolant hoses, etc etc. That way the cheaper $0.69-0.89/qt dino oil will work instead of the "high mileage" oils. ;)
But most people don't keep their cars for that long to have to worry about it.
There is no information on the free part of AutoZone's online repair guide. So their AllData subsidiary or Haynes manual on the bookshelf should help you confirm. Intake/exhaust should not be swapped because these seals are oil metering devices too.
Most engines will have different diameter valves for intake/exhaust, and that's another clue. But again verify for sure.
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