Mom, Apple Pie and...Toyota?

Mom, Apple Pie and...Toyota?

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Ford Says It's Patriotic to Buy A Mustang, but Sienna Is Made In Indiana With More U.S. Parts By JATHON SAPSFORD and NORIHIKO SHIROUZU May 11, 2006; Page B1

Few sports cars have captured the nation's imagination like the sleek Ford Mustang, a 21st-century reincarnation of an American classic. The Toyota Sienna minivan, by contrast, speaks to the utilitarian aesthetics of Japan: refined interiors, arm rests and lots and lots of cup holders.

Yet, by a crucial measure, the Sienna is far more American than the Mustang. Statistics from the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration that were publicized in "Auto Industry Update: 2006," a presentation by Farmington Hills, Mich., research company CSM Worldwide, show only 65% of the content of a Ford Mustang comes from the U.S. or Canada. Ford Motor Co. buys the rest of the Mustang's parts abroad. By contrast, the Sienna, sold by Japan's Toyota Motor Corp., is assembled in Indiana with 90% local components.

There's more than a little irony in this, considering Ford has launched a campaign to regain its footing with an appeal to patriotism (catchphrase: "Red, White & Bold"). "Americans really do want to buy American brands," asserted Ford Executive Vice President Mark Fields in a recent speech. "We will compete vigorously to be America's car company."

As the Mustang shows, though, it's no longer easy to define what is American. For 20 years now, the dynamic car makers of Asia -- led by Toyota, Nissan Motor Co. and Honda Motor Co. -- have been pouring money into North America, investing in plants, suppliers and dealerships as well as design, testing and research centers. Their factories used to be derided as "transplants," foreign-owned plants just knocking together imported parts. Today, the Asian car makers are a fully functioning industry, big and powerful enough to challenge Detroit's claim to the heart of U.S. car manufacturing.

The result is a brewing public-relations war, with both sides wrapping themselves in the Stars and Stripes. Toyota, for example has been running commercials touting its contribution to the areas of the U.S. economy where it has built factories.

Next year, the staid Toyota Camry will undergo the ultimate rite of passage by entering the most prestigious circuits of the National Association of Stock Car Racing. Toyota President Katsuaki Watanabe said his company's vast network of dealerships saw the Nascar link as a crucial marketing tactic to raise Toyota's profile in the U.S. heartland. "Our dealers told us it was really important to do this," he says.

On Thursday, the Level Field Institute, a grass-roots organization founded by U.S. Big Three retirees, is scheduled to hold a news conference in Washington. Among the points the group is expected to make is its belief that comparing relative North American component content is an ineffective way to determine who is "more American" among auto makers. A better way, says Jim Doyle who heads Level Field, is to look at the number of jobs -- from research and development to manufacturing to retailing -- each auto maker creates per car sold in the U.S.

Mr. Doyle says the institute's study shows that Toyota in 2005 employed roughly three times more U.S. workers, on a basis of per car sold in the U.S., than Hyundai Motor Co. Each of the Big Three manufacturers in the same year employed roughly three times as many U.S. workers, on a per-car-sold basis, as Toyota. "What's better for the American economy?" Mr. Doyle asks. A GM car "built in Mexico with 147,000 jobs back here in America or a Honda built in Alabama with 4,000 or 5,000 jobs in America?"

Measuring local content is extremely difficult because a part made in America can be assembled from smaller parts, some of which might come from abroad. All of which underscores how the line between what is and isn't American, at least in the auto industry, is "going to be increasingly difficult to pinpoint" as car makers become increasingly international and produce more in local markets, says Michael Robinet, a vice president at CSM Worldwide.

General Motors Corp. is importing Korean-made cars to sell under the Chevy nameplate. Japanese car makers are using American designers for cars being sold in China. Some of the high end luxury BMW "imports" on the road are made in South Carolina. "We don't look at it as an American industry," says Mr. Robinet. "It really is a global industry."

That said, the Japanese manufacturing presence in the U.S. is growing. Foreign-based auto makers in the U.S., led by the Japanese, account for 1.7% of U.S. manufacturing jobs, according to a report by the Center for Automotive Research, Ann Arbor, Mich. After $28 billion in cumulative North America investment -- and annual purchases of parts reaching $45 billion or more in recent years -- 67% of the Japanese-brand cars now sold in North America are made in North America, according to the Japan Automobile Manufacturers Association.

Japanese investment in U.S. production was a response to the trade tensions of the 1990s, when tensions flared over Japan's surplus with the U.S., of which autos and auto parts were a large portion. By spreading investment across the U.S., Japan's car makers have won crucial allies among U.S. politicians. Last year, when President Bush took to the road to tout his Social Security plan, one of his first stops was a major Nissan plant in Canton, Miss., a conservative corner of the country where the phrase "buy American" no longer means what it once did.

"As the son of a union member, I'll admit that free trade is an issue with which I've struggled," says Republican Sen. Trent Lott of Mississippi, who has a Nissan Titan pickup truck in his garage. But he adds: "Remember that every Nissan built in Canton also was engineered by Americans, for Americans."

What isn't clear is how Mustang fans like Fred Barkley, president of the Bluegrass Mustang Club of Lexington, Ky., would react to the news that the Mustang is only 65% American, at least by one government measure. Mr. Barkley, owner of three Mustangs, one from 1965 and two from the early

1990s, says it "doesn't bother me too much." Told the Toyota Sienna has higher North American content than the Mustang, he is unimpressed. "I wouldn't buy a Sienna," he says. "I don't like them because they are foreign."

-- Life's tough. It's tougher if you're stupid

John Wayne

Reply to
Jim Higgins
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*snip*

My mom drives a Toyota, and makes awesome apple pie, so it seems right to me...

Natalie

Reply to
Wickeddoll®

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i saw that article. I have the Sienna too. Was looking at the Chevy Suburban - it had 50% on American parts. Decided to do the patriotic thing and buy the sienna.

Reply to
Dan J.S.

Why would anybody cross-shop the Sienna and the Suburban? Seems to me, someone would either be looking at minivans or at full-sized SUVs, and compare like with like. Those are rather disjoint vehicle categories.

Geoff

Reply to
Geoff Miller

Saw the article in the WSJ today.

Sienna 90% US parts. Ford Mustang 65% US parts.

Hmmmmm..

Charles of Schaumburg

Reply to
n5hsr

Mom, Apple Pie and...Toyota?

formatting link
Ford Says It's Patriotic to Buy A Mustang, but Sienna Is Made In Indiana With More U.S. Parts By JATHON SAPSFORD and NORIHIKO SHIROUZU May 11, 2006; Page B1

Few sports cars have captured the nation's imagination like the sleek Ford Mustang, a 21st-century reincarnation of an American classic. The Toyota Sienna minivan, by contrast, speaks to the utilitarian aesthetics of Japan: refined interiors, arm rests and lots and lots of cup holders.

Yet, by a crucial measure, the Sienna is far more American than the Mustang. Statistics from the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration that were publicized in "Auto Industry Update: 2006," a presentation by Farmington Hills, Mich., research company CSM Worldwide, show only 65% of the content of a Ford Mustang comes from the U.S. or Canada. Ford Motor Co. buys the rest of the Mustang's parts abroad. By contrast, the Sienna, sold by Japan's Toyota Motor Corp., is assembled in Indiana with 90% local components.

There's more than a little irony in this, considering Ford has launched a campaign to regain its footing with an appeal to patriotism (catchphrase: "Red, White & Bold"). "Americans really do want to buy American brands," asserted Ford Executive Vice President Mark Fields in a recent speech. "We will compete vigorously to be America's car company."

As the Mustang shows, though, it's no longer easy to define what is American. For 20 years now, the dynamic car makers of Asia -- led by Toyota, Nissan Motor Co. and Honda Motor Co. -- have been pouring money into North America, investing in plants, suppliers and dealerships as well as design, testing and research centers. Their factories used to be derided as "transplants," foreign-owned plants just knocking together imported parts. Today, the Asian car makers are a fully functioning industry, big and powerful enough to challenge Detroit's claim to the heart of U.S. car manufacturing.

The result is a brewing public-relations war, with both sides wrapping themselves in the Stars and Stripes. Toyota, for example has been running commercials touting its contribution to the areas of the U.S. economy where it has built factories.

Next year, the staid Toyota Camry will undergo the ultimate rite of passage by entering the most prestigious circuits of the National Association of Stock Car Racing. Toyota President Katsuaki Watanabe said his company's vast network of dealerships saw the Nascar link as a crucial marketing tactic to raise Toyota's profile in the U.S. heartland. "Our dealers told us it was really important to do this," he says.

On Thursday, the Level Field Institute, a grass-roots organization founded by U.S. Big Three retirees, is scheduled to hold a news conference in Washington. Among the points the group is expected to make is its belief that comparing relative North American component content is an ineffective way to determine who is "more American" among auto makers. A better way, says Jim Doyle who heads Level Field, is to look at the number of jobs -- from research and development to manufacturing to retailing -- each auto maker creates per car sold in the U.S.

Mr. Doyle says the institute's study shows that Toyota in 2005 employed roughly three times more U.S. workers, on a basis of per car sold in the U.S., than Hyundai Motor Co. Each of the Big Three manufacturers in the same year employed roughly three times as many U.S. workers, on a per-car-sold basis, as Toyota. "What's better for the American economy?" Mr. Doyle asks. A GM car "built in Mexico with 147,000 jobs back here in America or a Honda built in Alabama with 4,000 or 5,000 jobs in America?"

Measuring local content is extremely difficult because a part made in America can be assembled from smaller parts, some of which might come from abroad. All of which underscores how the line between what is and isn't American, at least in the auto industry, is "going to be increasingly difficult to pinpoint" as car makers become increasingly international and produce more in local markets, says Michael Robinet, a vice president at CSM Worldwide.

General Motors Corp. is importing Korean-made cars to sell under the Chevy nameplate. Japanese car makers are using American designers for cars being sold in China. Some of the high end luxury BMW "imports" on the road are made in South Carolina. "We don't look at it as an American industry," says Mr. Robinet. "It really is a global industry."

That said, the Japanese manufacturing presence in the U.S. is growing. Foreign-based auto makers in the U.S., led by the Japanese, account for 1.7% of U.S. manufacturing jobs, according to a report by the Center for Automotive Research, Ann Arbor, Mich. After $28 billion in cumulative North America investment -- and annual purchases of parts reaching $45 billion or more in recent years -- 67% of the Japanese-brand cars now sold in North America are made in North America, according to the Japan Automobile Manufacturers Association.

Japanese investment in U.S. production was a response to the trade tensions of the 1990s, when tensions flared over Japan's surplus with the U.S., of which autos and auto parts were a large portion. By spreading investment across the U.S., Japan's car makers have won crucial allies among U.S. politicians. Last year, when President Bush took to the road to tout his Social Security plan, one of his first stops was a major Nissan plant in Canton, Miss., a conservative corner of the country where the phrase "buy American" no longer means what it once did.

"As the son of a union member, I'll admit that free trade is an issue with which I've struggled," says Republican Sen. Trent Lott of Mississippi, who has a Nissan Titan pickup truck in his garage. But he adds: "Remember that every Nissan built in Canton also was engineered by Americans, for Americans."

What isn't clear is how Mustang fans like Fred Barkley, president of the Bluegrass Mustang Club of Lexington, Ky., would react to the news that the Mustang is only 65% American, at least by one government measure. Mr. Barkley, owner of three Mustangs, one from 1965 and two from the early

1990s, says it "doesn't bother me too much." Told the Toyota Sienna has higher North American content than the Mustang, he is unimpressed. "I wouldn't buy a Sienna," he says. "I don't like them because they are foreign."

-- Life's tough. It's tougher if you're stupid

John Wayne

Reply to
Jim Higgins

There are non-thinkers everywhere. :-(

IIRC, Mustangs, source of the mystique behind the car's logo and image, were foreign imports (by Spaniards) that went feral. ;-)

Reply to
Andrew Stephenson

The V6 Mustang has a parts content label that says 65% American parts, the V8 has a 90% American parts. The slider is a part like an engine that is

95% assembled China that has the final 5%, like the pans and fuel system, assembled in Canada or Mexico gets added to the 'made in North America' parts content.

The real answer as to what is an American car can be found in the first number of the VIN. I. E. The Mustang VIN has a '1,' made in the US, the Honda Accord has a '1.' The Nissan Titan has a '1.' The ONLY Toyotas that have a '1' are those assembled in the GM/Toyota assembly plant in California, where the UAW contract requires a 70% US content. The Sienna VIN has a '4' not a '1.' The Tundra VIN has a '5' not a '1' A '1' means at least 70% of the vehicles component parts, including the steel, plastic, rubber etc are sourced in the US, not north America. On the other hand a '4' means the vehicle was only assembled in the US of fewer than 70% US component parts, but more than 40%. A '5' means assembled in the US but of less than 40% US component parts.

mike hunt

Reply to
Mike Hunter

Well I was looking at vehicles, not getting a class on marketing. It's simple. I wanted a vehicle to hold 8 people (wife and myself, 2 car seats, and grandparents). Both the Suburban and Sienna offered it. The Sienna's gas mileage is actually worse than a suburban (I average 14.7 MPG).

Reply to
Dan J.S.

This information differs from the information on the DOT's web site that lists VIN requirements:

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This site does not mention anything about U.S. or North American content. Perhaps the system that Mike is describing is one that is used by Ford and GM but necessarily by other manufacturers?

Reply to
Ray O

The people I know who have Suburbans are getting in the 10-12 MPG range. We get a little over 14 MPG in our 8 passenger Sequoia. I know someone with a diesel Econoline conversion with a raised roof and she says that they are getting around 22 MPG.

Reply to
Ray O

If what you believe were actually true than why do the Camry and Tundra not have a '1' as the first number of the VIN like those Toyotas made in the GM/Toyota plant and the Accord and Titan and not the '4' and '5' that they do have?

mike hunt

Reply to
Mike Hunter

A couple weeks ago, I began to think there is a reasonable explanation why the 2006 Camrys made in Kentucky have a VIN starting with a "4" yet a content label (or "origin sticker") showing "80 percent American parts."

With an origin sticker like that, the VINs should start with a 1. (I'm talkin' 2006 now. I haven't looked at the 2007 origin stickers for the Camry.)

Let's remember the VIN laws (or sets of regulations) and the "origin sticker" laws (or sets of regulations) are NOT the same law or set of regs.

The VIN regs precede the "origin sticker" regs by many years. So the two sets of regulations must have different methods by which they compute the percentage of American versus "foreign" parts.

Regarding the regs, I asked in December of last year [ACTUAL QUOTE], "Are the engine and transmission counted as a single part each; how does that work?" Question asked on 12/28/05. It's great that Google indexes all the posts.

Perhaps, as Mike hinted in his post earlier today, the newer origin sticker regs just count the engine as a single part, for example (or maybe just

2 or 3 parts), but we all know an engine is made up of a gazillion parts, possibly many from America and many from Japan. The older VIN regs may go deeper and analyze the engine makeup, etc.

Mike said earlier TODAY, "The slider is a part like [the] engine..."

And Mike mentioned that the VIN regs take into account many other things "including the steel, plastic, rubber etc." So that probably explains why a 2006 Camry with a VIN starting with a "4" can sport an Origin Sticker showing "80 percent American parts."

But Mike, your answer today came about 5 months after my December question :-P and I had deduced the answer 2 weeks ago (and actually in December with my question) :-P

Naw, in all seriousness, though, you know the auto laws and regulations better than anybody here.

Reply to
Built_Well

Mike,

If you go back and re-read my post, you'll see that I didn't say that I believed anything. I honestly don't know, which is why I posted a question and not a statement.

I am pretty sure that the initial production of FX 16's, Corollas, and Prisms produced at the NUMMI plant were knock down units that were nowhere near 70% U.S. content yet the first number of the VIN was "1" from day one.

I did some research and could not find any information that describes the correlation between the first character in the VIN and U.S. content. I'm not saying it isn't there, I'm just saying I couldn't find it. Can you help us out and provide a reference?

Reply to
Ray O

Do you really expect a troll like "Mike Hunt(er)" to provide a reference to all the bullshit he constantly spews on here?

Reply to
High Tech Misfit

Mike is usually correct when he posts facts. If one reads his posts carefully, one can easily tell the difference between the facts and his interpretation of the facts.

Reply to
Ray O

Try a little logic. If there were no differences in the vehicles made in the US why would there be THREE different numbers for vehicles made here? If made in Canada the first number is simply a '2.' Mexico it is a '3.' For the US the first digit is a '1' '4' or '5.' Think about it

mike hunt

Reply to
Mike Hunter

: Why would anybody cross-shop the Sienna and the Suburban? Seems to : me, someone would either be looking at minivans or at full-sized : SUVs, and compare like with like. Those are rather disjoint vehicle : categories.

The point, smartass, is that those vehicles are so different that they're quite unlikely to appeal to the same potential buyers. One is a minivan, with the image of sober practicality and efficient packaging that minivans as a class have. And the other is a big, truck-based SUV --the sort of vehicle that, whatever its merits, is more cumbersome and more difficult to park and to maneuver in close quarters than a minivan.

(Several people at work have Chevy Avalanches. They're smaller than the Suburban, but are still so big that their owners back them into parking spaces in order to minimize the risk of striking another vehicle when they pull out to depart.)

Far from attacking you for looking at such dissimilar vehicles as you seem to have thought I was, I'm genuinely interested in why a person would have both the Sienna and the Suburban on his short list. And I'm not one of these anti-SUV loons; I think everybody is entitled to drive whatever sort of vehicle he wants and can afford. It isn't a question of marketing but of practicality.

Okay, so you have a need for 8 seats; well and good. But how often do you need to carry your entire immediate family plus both sets of grandparents, all at the same time? Wouldn't it be more practical to take two normal passenger cars on the occasions when the grand- parents are along, and spare yourself the expense of driving such a thirsty vehicle mostly empty the rest of the time?

Geoff

Reply to
Geoff Miller

I did think about it, and that logic makes a lot of sense except that I do not have an explanation for the initial run of FX's with a VIN beginning with a 1 with less than 70% U.S. content and the Sienna with more than 70% content beginning with a 4.

Reply to
Ray O

I explained that in a previous post. I'll try once more then I give up. The Sienna has a '4' not a '1' because the standard that defines the first digit designation of the VIN does not qualify the Sienna to have a '1.'

The parts label refers to PARTS only that are consider made in NORTH America, US, Canada and Mexico. If a manufacture like Toyota buys a starter from lets say the Japanese company Denso Global, that is assembled in Canada of component parts made in China, that part qualifies as a NA part as part to the part content on the content label.... If that part is one of the parts on a content label, among other similar parts that total over 70%, the content label will read 70% American parts evn though the part are not American. The regulation that assigns VINs does not consider that part as an AMERICAN part but Canadian, as opposed to say the steel in a V6 Mustang made in America that has a parts label showing 65% because the Ford engine and tranny in the car are from a European Ford factory..

I've seen Camrys made in Japan that obviously have little or no NM parts that displays a content label that show the engine and tranny were made in Japan yet states, 'this car LINE has 70% American parts' label, while obviously THAT Camry does not.

The Lincoln LT truck that is based on the Ford F150 and made in one of the Ford truck plants that also builds the F150 on the same line, that has a content label that says 90% American parts. The first number of the VIN is a '4' not a '1' as it is on the F150s. The reason is the wheels and the interior, including the dash of the TL are completely different than the F150 and made in Canada not Michigan as are the F150 wheels, interior and dash thus dropping the total component content to just below 70% and thus a '4' not a '1'

mike hunt

Reply to
Mike Hunter

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