1967 corvette convertible (fair price)

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All, thanks for taking time to respond to my email. The asking price is $ 45K. Here is more information on the car:
1) FRAME OFF RESTORATION 2) PAINTED ORIGINAL COLOR
3) NO HARD TOP 4) P/S 5) P/B 6) VINYL INTERIOR, NO HEAD REST 7) NO AC, P/W 8) 4 SPEED MANUAL 9) FACTORY SIDE EXHAUST 10) I BELIEVE THE ORIGINAL ENGINE WAS A 327, RED LINE ON TACH LOOKS LIKE 57 11) BODY MODIFICATION, IT HAS A BIG BLOCK HOOD
Thanks, Mark
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According to Rogers Corvette's trivia ..............................
In late February/early March, 1967, some small blocks received the big block hood due to an manufacturing problem with the small block hood mold. These were not given the hood stripe.
enjoy your new car kickstart
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The big block hood on the small blocks from the factory is something started by Noland Adams in his book. He found evidence that the factory had a problem with the hood mold and so would substitute big block hoods with no stripe until the problem was solved.
However, there is a vocal group in NCRS that insists no evidence of this actually occurring has been found. The paperwork to do it existed but paperwork doesn't prove that work was actually done. There are many engineering change requests and orders through any year that never actually get implemented by the factory. Don't expect it to be judged nicely, though, as you will need prove it is real, as it is not Typical Factory Production, the main guide of NCRS restoration.
The Corvette that started Noland to look for this or that he used for confirmation is Roy Braatz's blue '67 coupe 194377S112345. (How is that for a number - 12345?)
Roy is the second owner since WAAAAY back and knew the car when new. The big block hood was on it and no evidence of a small block hood ever being mounted exists. If someone changed the hood, evidence of the small block hood mounting would still exist.
The Corvette was recently for sale on eBay at http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1,1&itemE79005408&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT
Unfortunately, it is the only example that has not been proven to be fake or changed. However, one example doesn't mean they actually did this for a few days. It could have been a COPO request or some other special build that has been long forgotten. That doesn't discount this car as really being a factory big block hood small block. I believe Roy and the car. However, many argue this does not mean others were built. If a few more examples were found, then the emergency change could be verified, but the serial numbers would have to be within a few hundred of Roy's.
Two problems exist as a result:
1. Many sellers try to say their small block car with the big block hood is original so you will pay more. Not one has been proven true yet except Roy's, and he wasn't trying to sell until this year, yet it was judged years ago.
2. Any chance of finding a factory big block hood small block car is probably non-existent as those in good enough shape to verify originality have probably been restored to the "correct" configuration, thus eliminating the few examples around. Kind of like the Planet of the Apes (the original) where the navigator had his brain operated on.
So bottom line, did they or did they not build some 1967 Corvette small blocks with the big block hood?
I think they did, but only a few, but I think that finding one of them besides Roy's is probably not going to happen. So don't get your hopes up over a Corvette with a '67 big block hood. Thousands of people put them on because they looked so good.

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What ever ..... just enjoy the car and Fuck NCRS I owned corvettes before there was an NCRS they can call themselves the powers that be for all I care, but cars were made to be driven. enjoyed and IMPROVED Relics belong in museums with mummies and bones

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Well stated Kickstart! Trailers are for horses, not for cars and certainly not for Vettes.
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A rather "appropriate" remark.
Mark asked for a value of a Corvette he is looking at. You gave him some information from a web site that copied it from a book, which while there is paperwork to say it should happen, only one verified example says it ever did.
Maybe he should buy my rare 1983 Corvette. There is a lot of paperwork that says they were going to build them. We know they only built the pilot cars.
If Mark accepts that small blocks came from the factory with big block hoods, and does not know the information behind such a statement, then he is ill-equipped to deal with sellers who tell him that theirs is one of those "rare big block hooded small block cars" and can con him into either paying too high because it is rare or paying to high because it isn't stock.
Not that there is anything wrong with non-stock, but the market value is not there. We have had this discussion before. Change things from original, price goes down. It may well be a better car, like Bob G's '72 with the hot 327, and I personally have had and like the big block hood on a car, but the market price is less.
Why you decided to make a comment about NCRS and museums, I'm not sure, other than you apparently are not showing the maximum level of knowledge. NCRS actually is one of the few restoration groups that promotes DRIVING the cars. They have road tours, road trips, and they credit points toward judging for the miles driven to the event. I think you mean NCCB (Bloomington Gold) who are mainly trailer queens.
The museum that they did push to start was the National Corvette Museum in Bowling Green. Are you saying that the NCM is a bad idea and we should get rid of or boycott it? I see you have a Tampa Bay Road Runner account. Have you ever been down to the Cunningham Museum in Naples? Too bad it closed, but maybe there are too many anti-museum people down your way.
Granted NCRS can be too anal about a lot of things, from whether there is an "A", "D", or "T" in your valve cover bolts, to the fonts on stamp pad and more. But if you are getting ready to lay out $40,000 to $100,000 and need to know which is the appropriate amount, should he trust the information you give or the information NCRS has accumulated over 31 years AND documented?
As to Stingray jumping in here on this, sounds awful funny attacking an originality group from a guy who on 10/17/05 attacked a 1976 Corvette for being unoriginal with a Daytona kit on it. Seems he doesn't like original or modified.
BTW, I don't belong to NCRS.

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thats all I did

you claiming to have an 83?

the original Mark has never said if he is looking for an investmwnt or a driver

"WE" havent had this conversation because I dont agree with it I dont have my head buried in the sand, I realize there are nuts that think a car is an investment My 79 has a,ot of changes and I drive it, I enjoy it and I have greatly improved or from what the factory made in 79 I think it is worth more than a stock 79

2 different groups same mentality I have been to too many car shows that people in brand new C-5 and now 6's show up with their lawn chairs and super clean never been driven cars with bolt on doodads That does nothing for me The same for older never driven "collectables". I want to see a car that was driven there and has had something done to make it better that before

I was there for the ground breaking cerimony, It's a fine idea and a good thing. I have been to the Cairo museum in Egypt too. Nice place for a mummy

I see he has his views too and is entitled to his tastes
As far as investors are concerned I suppose they have a pirpose

neither do I,but I think you knew that.
I can generally agree with you, but if Mark is coming to a news group for investment advice .......... ? He must be a moron
kickstart
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Sarcastic comment. However, you look at enough ads, there are people who advertise their '84 model Corvette as a 1983, because they bought it in the '83 model year. It is still an '84 model, though.

"We" meaning this news group.

All cars are an investment - an investment of time, energy, and money. However, most only think in terms of financial investments, and in that case, specifically in one of increasign value. I have not said that.
To many, new cars are a good "investment". They buy a car at $30,000, drive it for 2 or 3 years, then sell for $20,000. Financial investment is a wash - a loss of $20,000. However, in energy and time, they may be very good, since they had a reliable car that they could drive anywhere, coudl trust to run without problems, and trusted to keep their family safe.
Those after a financial investment only are often fooling themselves.

There again, lack of your information on a group surfaces. NCRS gives driving points for driving to a show. Since getting all the correct parts is often impossible, many do drive their cars to the events to gain the driving points to offset the loss of points over missing or incorrect parts.
I don't mean driving from the hotel parking lot, I mean driving from often several states away. Grant, many trailer, but many do drive. When is the last time you drove several states away for a show/event or even out of the country, like many did to Windsor, Canada?

Many look at them as the biggest problem with our hobby. Before all the investors, we had Corvettes ranging $2000 to $8000 or so. Now the prices are much higher. However, some of that would happen regardless. Or the opposite, they would have simply disappeared from the hobby. In cars that investors don't seem to chase, like many older Britsh cars, cars like Bricklin, DeLorean, and others, the price has stayed low. Easy for an enthusiast to buy, however, there is no support market. Where do you buy parts for a Bricklin? Granted, there are special groups, but you may have to search a year to get a part to make your Bricklin run right, but you can buy any part for a Corvette (if you are not after some rare restoration part but only a functional part) the same day and rarely more than a 3 day shipping time.

I don't know if he was really here for investment advice, but simply pricing information. He said, "I am trying to determine what is a fair price to offer."
In that case, knowing the way the market price goes is important because no one wants to pay too much. Like that 1976 Corvette Daytona. Someone may think it is great, but $20,000 great? Maybe if he makes a few mill a year and $20,000 to him is like $100 to me. But most buyers need to know the market value, how much it is worth, what they can expect to resell, and so on, to make an educated buy on the car. Would you recommend buying a Corvette for $70,000 only to discover it is worth $50,000? Even if he intended to never sell, and drove it daily and never showed it except at Sonic or A&W on Friday night, that would be a foolish move.
And like it or not, the prices of most of these cars are such that price, market value, and originality are all very important to know what to buy and not buy. Even for those not wanting an original car, you need to determine originality because the seller will use originality to make the price higher. Every day on eBay you see people talking about how the car is "rare", an "investment", "easily restored", and "99% original" and so on. Yet the ability to determine originality will let you see that many of these are often very unoriginal, and thus the asking prices are too high.
You are in a lucky place with your '79. They are to an extent like the midyears and solid axles in the early '70s. Prices low, not increasing, and affordable. With no market increases, hot rodding, customizing, and so on affected no price except to occasionally increase it. This left owners to enjoy their cars in any way they wanted. That is pretty much true with the '74 to '89 Corvettes. But the other years, that isn't the case, and this '67 that Mark is looking at is about the peak of the cars that must be checked very, very well to keep from overspending.
Of course, he could be full of smoke and simply trying to get info for his intended investment.
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At what I have been paid to give opinions on "market value" of some Corvettes have bought a lot more than a cup of coffee. Let's say the last trip with a buyer was at 49,000 ft and cruising at 498 mph. And we didn't go through no stinking TSA.
Ain't no 757.

You have obviously not built one from the ground up. Your time and energy can eclipse the money easily.

I agree. And they are even a worse investment if you pay too much to start with.
The whole point was so Mark wouldn't start off even deeper in the hole than he will anyway.
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now I see why you can't have a conversation with out equating to $ ..... this is your job Sorry I was not familiar with your profession before trying to converse about what cars and hobbies mean to their enthusiasts
kickstart
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It is not my profession, but I do get paid to do it.
As to hobby, I'm very much hobby. Otherwise, I would have made my million in the cut-throat buying and selling game that goes on. One car I bought on a Wednesday I could have doubled the price on that Saturday. Instead, I got a lot of miles and a lot of fun out of it over many years. I play with old cars that I enjoy and most don't understand why I like them.
And instead of giving opinions and answers here for free, I'd be like the spam and tell you that for $xx I can give you what you are looking for. But I've never made a buck or attempted to off of here.
Instead of having the "No Touch" signs on the cars if one is out somewhere, I put the kids in it some they can have their picture in it rather than beside it. It creates a new enthusiast. Remember the first Corvette you saw? Now do you remember the first one you were in or rode in? Which is the better memory?

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I always liked the bar in the Lear 35 better than the 25, but the 25 was faster.
--
Life is a waste of time
Time is a waste of life
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I like that they do a pat-down on 70 and 80 year old ladies and check down your underwear while shoeless at the airport but you can climb aboard a private plane at a commercial airport and no one checks you for anything. Heck, you walk through the door and you are on the tarmac, free to wander the hangers, and so on. Yet a friend at the telephone company was called to the airport to fix a problem they had and he has 45 minutes to clear security to fix something for them that takes about 10 minutes to do.
Where's the logic?

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Tom, as I'm sure you know, in your industry, there are appraisers and there are appraisers. As a banker, I have actually refused to accept appraisals from certain appraisers, who essentially asked their clients: "What do you want it to appraise at?" They too were paid more for their opinions than the value of a cup of coffee, but I'd take the cup of coffee before I'd take their opinion of value.

That's why I choose to buy my vehicles in good shape at the outset. Then I can rationalize (to my wife!) my time and energy to bring it to the level I want it.

While I'm largely in agreement with you here Tom, the fact remains that if a buyer spends double what you and I think a car is worth, it is still a good deal to him, or he wouldn't have made the purchase. So our opinion doesn't matter.

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I'm not an appraiser. I'm more of an advisor. I evaluate a car, see what is right and wrong, tell the buyer if it is worth it or not. I never deal with money or assign a value.
However, you do acquire a sense of the prices rapidly doing that. You have to just to know if the asking price is too high or not.
I NEVER suggest any are an investment similar to stock or realty except very few really rare cars - L88s, Grand Sports, etc. The Grand Sports are all taken. The L88s are very dangerous to deal in, it is a high risk unless there is tremendous documentation and it is well-known.

To each there own. Some buy and drive immediately to enjoy, others enjoy the building. No way is wrong. Well, the building can be wrong depending on the wife.

I think that is true mostly and was very true in the past. However, some cars today with the overly inflated prices make that not true because many go out on a limb to buy in hope of making money. This is foolhardy. There is always the chance the demand and price can drop, and it has in the past, but there is the very real risk that what they are paying premium dollar for is not real, and thus the value is not real.
Likewise, many buy into this "financial investment" garbage like it is a lottery ticket, usually spending money they don't have. You know how foolish that is.
Kind of like buying a house and discovering termites. That is why most banks insist on termite inspections.
And while you can get screwed on any car, many it isn't that big of a deal. So you pay $20,000 instead of $18,000. But when you pay $120,000 instead of $70,000, it is a lot more serious.
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Tom, it sounds like you've been watching the B-J Auction in Scottsdale. <grin> I believe it was W.C. Fields who said "There's a sucker born every minute". And the Scottsdale auction proves it every year.
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That auction may possibly be one of the worst things to happen to the hobby. They have a party the night before, they open the bar a couple of hours before bidding, and they give egotistic bidders a chance at 15 seconds of fame on national TV. Only if they are bidding.
Add alcohol, beautiful women, competition, money to burn, and chance at TV fame, and the prices go nuts.
Then every person around who has a Corvette think they should get those same prices.
That is why Dad doesn't have that '64 right now. No doubt someone told her, or she saw a clip on the auction, about how much Corvettes are "worth", i.e., B-J prices.
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Gosh Tom..... The last time I drove one of my cars to an event....was TODAY.... Drove out of Maryland... Cut Thru West Virginia, then proceeded to rack up miles on the Skyline Drive In Virginia........ (would you believe there was SNOW on the ground, and some of the overlooks had been plowed.. Roads were dry however....
150 Corvettes took the drive...
BTW I drove the 72 ...with the top up...unusual but what the hell as you know my Corvette left the factory with the top up .. so I was just doing my part ..for the restoration crowd....of course the hood was close so nobody could see the 327 under the hood... LOL
I used to belong to the NCRS...and honestly I respect what they do and what they believe in... ANYWAY
The reason for the post is to thank CORVETTE ENTHUSIAST Magazine...and is editor, Andy Bolig, for paying off the Park Service when they came up with a 94 Dollar Permit Charge for the group of Corvettes to drive down the road.... ON TOP of the 10 bucks a car charge they hit us for at the Toll Booth...
Seriously "drive" has been a regular Charity "run" for a number of years and this year the "run" donated a pickup truck full of toys and over 1500 dollars in cash for Toys for Tots..
Score at least $ 3000 for the kids...
The US Park Service got 1500 bucks in tolls from the drivers ..(no problem with that ) but they also got 94 bucks extra for the permit and for the life of me and others we have no clue what the permit was for... Well maybe we overtaxed the "Confort Stations" at some of the overlooks... .
Final Score..... KIDS $3000 US PARK SERVICE $ 1594 .
OH WELL... a lot of Corvette Drivers got some quality "seat" time today ... and the leaves were colorful....
Jim Strathern (spelling) has organized this run..for a long time and since he lives in Penna... he racked up more States and Miles then I did... Thanks Jim !
Bob G.
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I'm not sure that counts. You can nearly hit a baseball into four states from your house. :-)
I think most people are at a place where they end up like Kickstart, 400 miles and never left the state. For grins, I made a list of states and marked which ones I was in with which Corvettes. Surprisingly, I've had each of them in relatively few states. I drove them a lot, and put a lot of miles on, but like Kickstart, some of those trips were several hundred miles in only one state. The one that had the most states was the one with the fewest miles. It also lived on a trailer much of the time, however, it is a bit rough going anywhere on the highway with an unlicensable race car.
Seriously, I think it is pretty neat you guys were out there in snow and all. But even you will admit that is the exception rather than the rule with most Corvette groups anymore.
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