Is there a list of towing allowances?

You might find what you're looking for on one of these sites:

HTH :-)

On or around Fri, 11 Jan 2008 08:39:50 +0000, Howie enlightened us thusly:

try this one:

Thanks chaps. I didn't find anything through google!

It looks like if I want to tow my 3.5 ton mini-digger combo, then it has to be a LR or a Toyota Hilux!

Interesting.

Ta again for the help.

Or of course a Jeep ...

... I'll get my coat.

Dave.

You won't be doing it with a Hilux - 2250kg max towing weight. Even a Landcruiser is only rated to 2800kg. A Nissan Patrol is rated to tow

3500kg.

|Howie wrote: |> Thanks chaps. I didn't find anything through google! |> |> It looks like if I want to tow my 3.5 ton mini-digger combo, then |> it has to be a LR or a Toyota Hilux! | |You won't be doing it with a Hilux - 2250kg max towing weight. Even a |Landcruiser is only rated to 2800kg. A Nissan Patrol is rated to tow |3500kg.

Hmmm. I could have sworn I read that the hilux will tow 3500kg.

I might end-up using a transit tipper truck to do it in the end. I wonder if ALL transits are rated as 3500 max towing weight? I have no idea where to start checking this. I've been googling for

2 hours on this one and got nowhere!

Sorry to be a PITA, but does anyone know?

H.

On or around Fri, 11 Jan 2008 13:47:18 +0000, Howie enlightened us thusly:

You didn't use the right search terms, then :-)

Note that I suspect that there's some distortion in that list: nothing is listed as over 3500Kg.

In the UK, you can't tow a trailer more than 3500Kg MAM (Maximum Authorised Mass) on over-run brakes. However, if you set up linked brakes, you can. The point about this is not that you necessarily want to, but something that's rated by the manufacturer to tow 5 tonnes, say) will cope with 3500Kg better than something rated 3500Kg max.

note that some years ago, Land Rovers were rated to tow 4 tons, but that changed not 'cos the LRs changed but because of the law - LR playing it safe, I think.

I'm pretty sure the Daihatsu 2.8TD is rated to tow 5 tonnes, on linked brakes in the UK, but that list doesn't have the data.

The Porsche Cayenne is listed as able to tow 3500Kg :-)

On or around Sat, 12 Jan 2008 10:50:20 +1300, EMB enlightened us thusly:

The Landcruiser Amazon is rated 3500Kg...

and per other post, I'm fairly sure they used to rate the Daihatsu fourtrak to 5 tonnes, with appropriate braking. Trouble is, now the law is so keen, all the manufacturers are playing it safe.

Having said that, I'd not really fancy any long journey in a series towing 4 tons, but it's undoubtedly capable of doing so.

On or around Sat, 12 Jan 2008 09:07:22 +0000, Howie enlightened us thusly:

not all Transits are rated thus. On Transits, you can look at the plate which gives a GVW and GTW figures. The bigger transits are now over 3.5T GVW (now known as MAM) and as such land you in tacho-territory unless you're exempt.

And so is/was a Range Rover AFAIR. Tow in comfort!

Martin

I got my figures off the specs PDFs on the Toyyota UK website.

You've got tacho, GVW (MAM) and operator's licence to consider. The

4x4 dual purpose is exempted from some of these, transit won't be.

AJH

They still are but only with the linked service brake and the GTW stays the same. I reckoned that a 90 with a 5th wheel and trailer would have the maximum carrying capacity for a non HGV but never did figure what class license was required.

AJH

Bloody 'el. It's a soddin' minefield.

All I want, is to move a 2.5ton digger around my local area in order to do some work!

I also (occasionally) need to move bulk materials (topsoil, rocks, etc.). So I was thinking of buying a transit tipper which is rated to tow 3.5 tons. However, I would be buying one 2nd hand and it's pointless even viewing vehicles which don't have the correct MTW rating. I admit that my googling might leave a bit to be desired. But I haven't even got close to finding the MTW for specific versions of transit tippers which are, say, 5 years old. It's very unlikely that any sellers are going to know the definitive answer.

At this rate, I might as well just go all out and get a 7.5-ton tipper truck, forget a trailer, and pop the 2.5 ton digger on the back! It might even be worth an operator's licence fee. My mate has a yard which he would let me use as a base for the vehicle storage address.

I seem to remember reading that, - unless the main part of my work is driving, I might get away with not needing a tacho, - even for a 7.5 ton vehicle. ???

Thanks for everyone's replies. It REALLY has complicated things. ;-)

Seriously, any further suggestions are very welcome.

H.

On or around Sat, 12 Jan 2008 17:18:16 +0000, Howie enlightened us thusly:

I found something about tachos in the legislation... interpretation is your problem...:-)

I doubt you can play the non-commercial card (exception h) if you do it as a business. A lot of the types round here use tractors and trailers for hauling diggers etc. around, not that I approve.

dual-purpose vehicles and any trailer are exempt from O-license, see down the bottom somwehere... but if over the specified weight, you may still need a tacho.

anyhow, excerpts from EC legislation follow...

Council Regulation 3821/85 of December 20, 1985

[1. Recording equipment shall be installed and used in vehicles registered in a Member State which are used for vehicles referred to in Article 3 of Regulation (EC) No 561/2006. Vehicles referred to in Article 16(1) of Regulation (EC) No 561/2006 and vehicles, which were exempt from the scope of application of Regulation (EEC) No 3820/85, but which are no longer exempt under Regulation (EC) No 561/2006 shall have until 31 December 2007 to comply with this requirement.] [EC 561/2006 - 11 April 2007]

REGULATION (EC) No 561/2006 OF THE EUROPEAN PARLIAMENT AND OF THE COUNCIL of

15 March 2006 Article 1

This Regulation lays down rules on driving times, breaks and rest periods for drivers engaged in the carriage of goods and passengers by road in order to harmonise the conditions of competition between modes of inland transport, especially with regard to the road sector, and to improve working conditions and road safety. This Regulation also aims to promote improved monitoring and enforcement practices by Member States and improved working practices in the road transport industry.

Article 2

1. This Regulation shall apply to the carriage by road:

(a) of goods where the maximum permissible mass of the vehicle, including any trailer, or semi-trailer, exceeds 3,5 tonnes, or

(b) of passengers by vehicles which are constructed or permanently adapted for carrying more than nine persons including the driver, and are intended for that purpose.

1. This Regulation shall apply, irrespective of the country of registration of the vehicle, to carriage by road undertaken:

(a) exclusively within the Community; or

(b) between the Community, Switzerland and the countries party to the Agreement on the European Economic Area.

1. The AETR shall apply, instead of this Regulation, to international road transport operations undertaken in part outside the areas mentioned in paragraph 2, to:

(a) vehicles registered in the Community or in countries which are contracting parties to the AETR, for the whole journey;

(b) vehicles registered in a third country which is not a contracting party to the AETR, only for the part of the journey on the territory of the Community or of countries which are contracting parties to the AETR.

The provisions of the AETR should be aligned with those of this Regulation, so that the main provisions in this Regulation apply, through the AETR, to such vehicles for any part of the journey made within the Community.

Article 3

This Regulation shall not apply to carriage by road by:

(a) vehicles used for the carriage of passengers on regular services where the route covered by the service in question does not exceed 50 kilometres;

(b) vehicles with a maximum authorised speed not exceeding 40 kilometres per hour;

(c) vehicles owned or hired without a driver by the armed services, civil defence services, fire services, and forces responsible for maintaining public order when the carriage is undertaken as a consequence of the tasks assigned to these services and is under their control;

(d) vehicles, including vehicles used in the non-commercial transport of humanitarian aid, used in emergencies or rescue operations;

(e) specialised vehicles used for medical purposes;

(f) specialised breakdown vehicles operating within a 100 km radius of their base;

(g) vehicles undergoing road tests for technical development, repair or maintenance purposes, and new or rebuilt vehicles which have not yet been put into service;

(h) vehicles or combinations of vehicles with a maximum permissible mass not exceeding 7,5 tonnes used for the non-commercial carriage of goods;

(i) commercial vehicles, which have a historic status according to the legislation of the Member State in which they are being driven and which are used for the non-commercial carriage of passengers or goods.

O-licenses:

Goods Vehicles (Licensing of Operators) Act 1995 (c. 23)

1. Obligation to hold operator?s licence.

(1) Subject to subsection (2) and section 4, no person shall use a goods vehicle on a road for the carriage of goods :-

(a) for hire or reward, or

(b) for or in connection with any trade or business carried on by him,

except under a licence issued under this Act; and in this Act such a licence is referred to as an 'operator?s licence'.

(2) Subsection (1) does not apply to :-

(a) the use of a small goods vehicle within the meaning given in Schedule 1;

(b) the use of a goods vehicle for international carriage by a haulier established in a member State other than the United Kingdom and not established in the United Kingdom;

(c) the use of a goods vehicle for international carriage by a haulier established in Northern Ireland and not established in Great Britain; or

(d) the use of a vehicle of any class specified in regulations.

(3) In subsection (2)(b) and (c) 'established' , 'haulier' and 'international carriage' have the same meaning as in Community Council Regulation (EEC) No.881/92 dated 26 March 1992 concerning access to the market in the carriage of goods by road within the Community to or from the territory of a member State or passing across the territory of one or more member States.

(4) It is hereby declared that, for the purposes of this Act, the performance by a local or public authority of their functions constitutes the carrying on of a business.

(5) A person who uses a vehicle in contravention of this section is guilty of an offence and liable on summary conviction to a fine not exceeding level

5 on the standard scale.

The Goods Vehicles (Licensing of Operators) Regulations 1995 Statutory Instrument 1995 No. 2869

SCHEDULE 3

Regulation 33 CLASSES OF VEHICLES FOR WHICH A LICENCE IS NOT REQUIRED PART I

1. Any tractor as defined in paragraph 4(3) of Part IV of Schedule 1 to the Vehicle Excise and Registration Act 1994 (as originally enacted) while being used for one or more of the purposes specified in Part II of this Schedule.

1. A dual-purpose vehicle and any trailer drawn by it.

2. A vehicle used on a road only in passing from private premises to other private premises in the immediate neighbourhood belonging (except in the case of a vehicle so used only in connection with excavation or demolition) to the same person, provided that the distance travelled on a road by any such vehicle does not exceed in the aggregate 9.654 kilometres, (6 miles), in any one week.

1. A motor vehicle constructed or adapted primarily for the carriage of passengers and their effects, and any trailer drawn by it, while being so used.

2. A vehicle which is being used for funerals.

1. A vehicle which is being used for police, fire brigade [or, in England, fire and rescue authority] or ambulance purposes [The Fire and Rescue Services Act 2004 (Consequential Amendments) (England) Order 2004 -

30/12/2004].

1. A vehicle which is being used for fire-fighting or rescue operations at mines.

2. A vehicle on which no permanent body has been constructed, which is being used only for carrying burden which either is carried solely for the purpose of test or trial, or consists of articles and equipment which will form part of the completed vehicle when the body is constructed.

1. A vehicle which is being used under a trade licence.

2. A vehicle in the service of a visiting force or of a headquarters.

1. A vehicle used by or under the control of Her Majesty?s United Kingdom forces.

2. A trailer not constructed primarily for the carriage of goods but which is being used incidentally for that purpose in connection with the construction, maintenance or repair of roads.

1. A road roller and any trailer drawn by it.

2. A vehicle while being used under the direction of HM Coastguard or of the Royal National Lifeboat Institution for the carriage of life-boats, life-saving appliances or crew.

1. A vehicle fitted with a machine, appliance, apparatus or other contrivance which is a permanent or essentially permanent fixture, provided that the only goods carried on the vehicle are :-

(a) required for use in connection with the machine, appliance, apparatus or contrivance or the running of the vehicle;

(b) to be mixed by the machine, appliance, apparatus or contrivance with other goods not carried on the vehicle on a road in order to thrash, grade, clean or chemically treat grain;

(c) to be mixed by the machine, appliance, apparatus or contrivance with other goods not carried on the vehicle in order to make fodder for animals; or

(d) mud or other matter swept up from the surface of a road by the use of the machine, appliance, apparatus or other contrivance.

1. A vehicle while being used by a local authority for the purposes of the enactments relating to weights and measures or the sale of food and drugs.

1. A vehicle while being used by a local authority in the discharge of any function conferred on or exercisable by that authority under Regulations made under the Civil Defence Act 1948.

2. A steam-propelled vehicle.

1. A tower wagon or trailer drawn thereby, provided that the only goods carried on the trailer are goods required for use in connection with the work on which the tower wagon is ordinarily used as such.

2. A vehicle while being used for the carriage of goods within an aerodrome within the meaning of section 105(1) of the Civil Aviation Act 1982.

1. An electrically propelled vehicle.

2. A showman?s goods vehicle and any trailer drawn thereby.

1. A vehicle permitted to carry out cabotage in the United Kingdom under Community Council Regulation (EEC) No. 3118/93 dated 25 October 1993 laying down conditions under which non-resident carriers may operate national road haulage services within a Member State.

2. A goods vehicle first used before 1 January 1977 which has an unladen weight not exceeding 1525 kilograms and for which the maximum gross weight, as shown on a plate affixed to the vehicle by virtue of regulation 66 of the Motor Vehicles (Construction and Use) Regulations 1986 or any provision which that regulation replaced, exceeds 3500 kilograms but does not exceed

3556.21 kilograms (3 1/2tons).

1. A vehicle while being used by a highway authority for the purposes of section 196 the Road Traffic Act 1988.

2. A vehicle being held ready for use in an emergency by an undertaking for the supply of water, electricity, gas or telephone services.

1. A recovery vehicle.

2. A vehicle which is being used for snow clearing, or for the distribution of grit, salt or other materials on frosted, icebound or snowcovered roads or for going to or from the place where it is to be used for the said purposes or for any other purpose directly connected with those purposes.

1. A vehicle proceeding to or from a station provided by the Secretary of State under section 45 of the Road Traffic Act 1988 for the purposes of an examination of that vehicle under that section provided that :-

(a) the only load being carried is a load required for the purposes of the examination; and

(b) it is being carried at the request of the Secretary of State.

Howie, Austin has provided chapter and verse from the legislation regarding tachographs. From experience, I don't see how you can be exempt from using a tacho if you're driving for hire or reward (i.e. you are driving because you need to in order to fulfil your work). A further complication may arise if you're considering a used 7.5T vehicle in that it will (most likely) be fitted with an analogue tacho and may not be suitable for updating to the newer digital ones, which has to be done on all 7.5T vehicles within the next few years. Sorry don't remember the dates involved but you'll probably find the info on the DoT or VOSA web sites.

As for weights for Transit type vehicles, why not speak to a local hire company or 2nd hand commercial dealer. Aside from Ford I'd think they might be able to help.

HTH

|Howie, Austin has provided chapter and verse from the legislation |regarding tachographs. From experience, I don't see how you can be |exempt from using a tacho if you're driving for hire or reward (i.e. you |are driving because you need to in order to fulfil your work). A further |complication may arise if you're considering a used 7.5T vehicle in that |it will (most likely) be fitted with an analogue tacho and may not be |suitable for updating to the newer digital ones, which has to be done on |all 7.5T vehicles within the next few years. Sorry don't remember the |dates involved but you'll probably find the info on the DoT or VOSA web |sites. | |As for weights for Transit type vehicles, why not speak to a local hire |company or 2nd hand commercial dealer. Aside from Ford I'd think they |might be able to help. | |HTH

Steve. I'm _really_ not complaining. I certainly appreciate the help (Thank Austin, you, and others). I will be following the suggestions made. I'm just a bit surprised that MTWs for each vehicle (particularly transits), isn't easily available.

I have some time to consider my plans yet. the advice I've had here is invaluable.

Cheers for now.

H.

Yup but interestingly this also makes prosecutions difficult for the police. The legislation is all aimed at safety though.

I pointed you to the areas of legislation you need to comply with but IANAL, Austin quoted chapter and verse. It's the fact that it is for work, as Steve says, that makes life difficult.

This may well be the best way, land rovers and trailers can be inconvenient in many places compared with a little 4 wheeler.

As at 2000 the exemptions for tacho were:

Vehicles exempt from O licence

Less than 4 hours driving within 50km of operating centre

When vehicle is driven for less than half the working day ( which I guess is 4 hours?? and makes the 50km radius seem redundant).

Now interpretation of the exact rules may be difficult but wrt land rovers, the exemption that best fits is the fact that a dual purpose vehicle towing a 3.5 tonne trailer is exempt from O license, the transits won't be but may fit with the other categories.

AJH