Juergen - Info Please

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Juergen:
When you mentioned that the displacement of your W 123 240 D (newer version) was 2376 cc, it confused me because that is neither the real displacement (2399
cc) nor the tax displacement (2350 cc). That was the tax displacement of the older 240 D, but since you didn't mention it, I thought you had just made a mistake in your car's real displacement. Then when you stated your method of how the model numbers are arrived at, I thought you meant the real displacement and not the tax displacement (since you never mentioned tax displacement in your explanation). That is why I pointed out all those models whose displacements are a few cubic centimeters over what the model number indicates (e.g. the 4520 cc model 450) that according to you, by rounding up would give model numbers MB does not use. For example, the 450 would be 460, the older 240 D at 2404 cc would be 250 D, etc. I thought you were referring to the real displacement, not the tax displacement.
Now that you gave the longer explanation and that I see you used tax displacement on purpose, I made my own calculations of real displacement and tax displacement according to the Steureformel you gave me a few years ago. I found that there are exceptions to both methods of naming models whether by real or tax displacement. Whether you just round the real displacement up or down to the nearest 100 cc or you round the tax displacement up to the nearest 100 cc, there are models that will not work.
Some model numbers do not work according to either method. They are exceptions to the rule made on purpose by MB because MB wants a certain number on the trunk lid. For example, the 5.8-liter V12 which is model S 600, the old 6.9 (both real and tax displ show 6.8), the current 1.8-liter models C 200, etc.
Some models do not work according to your method. For example the current 4.3 liter, with 4266 cc of real displacement and 4196 cc of tax displacement. It is called 430 (according to real displacement) and not 420 (according to tax displacement). There are also some exceptions to the real displacement rule that do work with the tax displacement rule. For example, the 55 AMG models whose real displ is 5439 and Steuer 5401. According to my method, they should be 54 AMG models, but according to yours they are 55 AMG as MB names them.
The problem is that with many models which do not work according to one of the methods, you can defend the validity of your method by coming up with an explanation as to why it's an exception. You did it with the 6.9. Here's one to defend my method. The old M 110 DOHC inline-6 had a real displacement of 2746 cc and Steuer 2717 cc. According to my method it should have been model 270. According to you it should be 280, which it was. This does not automatically mean that the model number is based on the Steuer displ. The history of that model number is that the old M 130 engine (2778 cc and Steuer 2748 cc) was named correctly 280 according to both methods. MB reduced the cylinder bore 0.5 mm for the new M 110 engine. There had been many models named 280, e.g. 280 S, 280 SL, etc. MB simply wanted to keep the 280 designation and not switch to 270, so that the newer models would not seem inferior. Thus, they called the models powered by the M 110 engine 280 also even if their model number system is based on real displacement. This was simply and exception (like the 6.9).
Overall, I realize that there are many more exceptions using my method than yours, so it's very possible that you are correct.
Did you read anywhere that the method of naming the models is indeed based on rounding up the Steuer displacement, or did you just figure it out by observing the model numbers and comparing to the real and Steuer displacements?
Also, if you'd like my calculations of all the displacements going back to the Mercedes and Benz merger, I'll email them to you directly.
Best regards,
Danny
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Helen wrote:

If it's in the UK it means its White :-)
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PS = Pferdestaerke (horse power) ch = chevaux (horses)
1 hp metric = 2.94 donkeys 1 hp 550 = 2.983 donkeys 1 hp Electric = 2.984 donkeys 1 hp Water = 2.98417 donkeys
I kid you not.
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Thanks Danny and Juergen. Donkeys? Well, maybe, but those in my 240D aren't little donkeys! I just hope they don't require tons of bales of hay. LOL! I'm taking it to the mechanic tomorrow to replace the AC belt. He said he had to take another belt off. Here on the south-eastern coast of the US an AC is not merely inconvenient. Heat index yesterday and today was 105 degrees F. and the humidity stiffling. AC is a must! BTW, when you speak of a "US car" does that merely mean it was sold to the US or are there also differences? For example, the 240D I have was ordered from Germany. So how many ponies (donkeys)? 1983 240D 4 door blue sedan - ordered from Germany and shipped to USA in 1983. TIA
Helen
: So my 240D has not only 72 horses under the hood ;-) : but when these are on vacation nearly 212 donkeys? : : Aaaaah - 212 sounds sooo good! ;-)) : : : Juergen : ------------------------------------------------------------
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: Dori Schmetterling wrote:
: >
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Helen wrote:

I must admit I do not know, too, what Dori means with Donkeys - but as that unit rises the power figure from 72 to 212 I definitely _do_ like donkeys! ;-)

That is right, the belt for the power steering pump has to be removed. I suggest to have the two other belts (power steering pump and water pump/ alternator checked - if needed have them replaced, too. Also I would suggest to have him check the two rubber water hoses between the motor block and the radiator - these are known to wear after many years and if so the engine could loose its water, overheat and then repair is $$$.

There are differences. These include things like bigger bumpers, front side marker lights integrated into the turn signals, rear side marker lights integrated into the rear lights, instruments with mileage scales, different headlights...
USA e.g. http://www.dhc.net/~pmhack/mercedes/240d772.htm http://www.dhc.net/~pmhack/mercedes/240d793.htm http://www.dhc.net/~pmhack/mercedes/240d823.htm
Non-US e.g. http://www.dhc.net/~pmhack/mercedes/240d824.htm (later version with square-shape headlights) http://www.dhc.net/~pmhack/mercedes/240d822.htm (earlier version with double-round headlights, red paint under headlights non-original

It depends on - maybe a German model imported into the US, may have US-style conversions, may have no or littler US-style conversions, may be specially ordered from Germany due to certain options...

Have a look at <http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item $20219387&categoryc29> That is a US-model as one can see by <
http://imagehost.vendio.com/bin/viewimage.x/00000000/docsqualitycars/240D22.jpg
<
http://imagehost.vendio.com/bin/viewimage.x/00000000/docsqualitycars/240D20.jpg
Juergen
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Dori Schmetterling wrote:

Thanks for the explanation!

Looking under the hood - oops: bonnet - of my W123 reveals there is definitely more space than for the current 72 horses - but even considered a donkey is smaller than a horse I seriously doubt there is enough space for all 212... ;-))))
Juergen
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: Dori Schmetterling wrote: : > I found the donkeys in my conversion table I have : > in my computer when looking up horsepower. : > Believe me, I was surprised as you. I tried to : > find this unit with Google, but no luck so far. : > I am going to write to the : > producer of the converter and ask about the origin. : > http://www.mattmarsh.net/computing/palmpilot.shtml : : Thanks for the explanation! : : : > Indeed, if you look at number of donkeys in a : > metric hp and one of the other ones you'll get : > the 71 hp / 72 PS. : > The problem you'll have is that to keep 212 : > donkeys in line and going the same way is much : > harder than 72 horses... : : Looking under the hood - oops: bonnet - of my : W123 reveals there is definitely more space : than for the current 72 horses - but even : considered a donkey is smaller than a horse : I seriously doubt there is enough space for : all 212... ;-)))) : : : Juergen
Donkeys are not only smaller but strong and stubborn too? ;O) . Where could I get a list of routine information like:
1. Tire pressure. What's it supposed to be? 2. Oil check. (Do this when the engine is cold - I learned today). 3. Any other of these type things (fluid levels, battery, etc).
I want to make a spread sheet for various things with the date, etc.
Also, what's the word on "seals"? Are "seals" like gaskets? The owner informed me that there's a small oil leak. I don't know exactly what that means in terms of the amount, but when checked today it was fine. I asked about it and the mechanic said the only way to stop it is to replace the front seals and that would require leaving the vehicle over night with them, as opposed to a stop by and wait for a short while. Does anyone have any information on the amount of money we are speaking of when dealing with seals? Or any other advice? The oil leak is small but nonetheless a leak. I don't like oil leaks! Nor any other type leaks for that mat ter. TIA
Helen
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DAS --
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Exactly. In our saloons we look under bonnet, fill up with petrol (if not diesel) and put our luggage in the boot!
We also have gearboxes, though the chaps over the pond seem to talk about transmissions...
However, we still measure our speed in MPH (even if we now buy our apples and cheese in kilos).
DAS --
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