'85 K5 wiring diagram

You should have one....'85 used a feedback carb, knock sensor, spark delay module, and a couple of other 'minor' emission control devices, and they were all linked to a brain......

Jeremy

I didn't see any kind of feedback dohikeys on my carb. This vintage would have BCM not an ECM though, right? BCM is firewall mount, correct? I'll take a look. If so I'll have to kill it...hate 'car' computers....

~KJ~

car computers made it so the 305 went from 140 HP in your K5 to 215HP in '99... hell because of "car computers" the 350 went from 165hp in '85 to 255hp in '99. I personally like working on injected engines, there's less "voodoo" involved than working with a carb.

-Bret

BCM=Body Control Module or Brake Control Module. 85's had neither.

Doc

Did the fullsize trucks ever get the CCC carbs? I'm pretty sure they didn't, and switched directly from mechanical carbs to TBI in 87'.

Doc

I had an '85 C-10 4.3/turbo400 4 barrel quadrajet that had CCC.....and a 4 wire plug on the dist.....and the knock sensor....and all that other crap....

My dad had an '85 K-5 5.0 that had it all too, so I'm pretty sure KJ's has it too, unless he got one that was built for mexico or somethin.....

Jeremy

Funny the years you list. Does this mean I should put a '99 305CUI in my K5? Be realistic, do you run an Intel 8088 (4.3Mhz) or a pentium

500-900Mhz or higher? Are you posting using a DOS PPP client with dos carosel & a news group reader, or Windows ME with outlook express? Gimme my carb over the crappy old abacus in there any day. I bet the computer took away 5hp from 83 to 84, and I still don't think its in there anyways. Either the previous owner took it out, or it is the clasic 'blazer/suburban' behind one year...

~KJ~

KJ,

You are WWWWWAAAAAYYYY off base here. EFI kicks the snot out of carbs per way of driveability and power. Those who talk smack about EFI are those who don't know enough about the systems to troubleshoot and fix them.

Doc

You don't get my point. Here is a poignant quote that explains my feelings precisely...

"All that is complex is not useful. All that is useful is simple." - Mikhail Timofeevich Kalashnikov (Inventor of the AK-47, renowned for it's rugged dependability)

First my truck is supposed to be a feed back carb, not EFI. I don't see any feed back stuff, so the point is moot. Either it never had it or the previous owner killed it. Either way so much the better.

However my argument is thus:

Would you use a computer that you couldn't access? Couldn't configure? ETC!? You run a server. Would you buy a server that came with say Windows NT (the old skool one) and you couldn't upgrade it, change it, configure it, AT ALL? Couldn't change the user names, TCP/IP connections, resolution? I think not.

Do you use an Intel 8088 to smear me on USNET? Do you even KNOW what an 8088 is!? He's comparing 85 to 99. Well what about '99 to a '04? I'm sure HP went up! It's apples and oranges! His example was like comparing ENIAC to Steve's first Apple computer!

Sorry you won't get my mind to change about this one. My '85 K5 is rotting apart, has mangled vacuum tubes, etc and starts every morning

-20 out or 95. My '88 S10 'looks' to be in good condition and is a bitch. My fathers '95 Dodge caravan looks good but starts hard, our '91 Buick skylark sounds like a diesel. All I know is I beat the piss out of my K5 and it keeps on ticking.

~TLGM

GM,

Man just take a deep breath, and chill for a minute......

I'll agree with Doc any day on the fact that EFI (be it TBI or MPFI) will beat the snot out of a carb (feedback or not) any day. I can go out to my truck and start it in -20 to 115 without it arguing with me at all, and it's got a 25 year old quadrajet on it. It's all about maintenance and upkeep. I'll bet your year's salary (you wouldn't want mine) on the fact that if I were to upgrade to say the Edelbrock MPFI intake and fuel delivery system, it would start just as easily, but get better fuel economy and have better throttle response, as well as reduce emissions.

And you talk about 'upgradeability and configurability'? Change jets. Adjust your secondary spring tension. Play with your choke, float level, injector pump lever. You'd be amazed at how 'configurable' a carb (feedback or not, OBDI or pre) is. There's always timing curves you can change on OBDI, it's just not in the computer - you swap out some weights and springs. Old school.

Yeah, it's easy as hell to plug in that Hypertech box and hit a few buttons, but you're not really "modding" your engine. You're just taking someone else's hard work and paying for it.

That's it for the pros for carbs, here's my pros for EFI.

Tunability. Reduced emissions. Reliability (again, maintenance and upkeep are key to any engine - I'm sure if you had that S10, Skylark and Caravan tuned up and any bad sensors replaced, it'd make a world of difference.) Response. Fuel economy (and when gas is $1.50 a gallon for cheap stuff here, that's key). Adaptability - take your carb from sea level to Denver and see what all you need to change *manually* that EFI does for you.

In short - ounce for ounce, you get the best bang for your buck with EFI, and even though I run a 25 year old carb, you're not gonna change *my* mind on that one....

Jeremy

your point is amiss.... most injection systems are actually mechanically simple. compare the sheer amount of parts in a quadrabucket to a model 220 TBI init.

yep I would... they're called a watch or a calculator.

nope.

Do you even KNOW what

I actually have one in bottom of the closet

the 305 ceased production effectively in '99 for non industrial applications.

nope, more like McIntosh vs. Cortland. other than the induction system and controls there are few differences between a 85 and the 99 long block.

His example was like

closer to a Apple II and a IIgs

I wasn't trying to change your mind.. I remember a lot of posts for help with your quadrabucket, so your ticking isn't without help.

-Bret

NO IF I YELL IT MAKES ME RIGHT DAMNIT!!!! ;-)

Never fought economy at all. Injectors are also awesome for rock crawlers where extreme angles wreak havoc on bowls and fuel passage ways. Although I drove up a snow bank in a parking lot where I gouged the tar with my reciever (just the 'reciever' part, no ball on it). Engine didn't seem to care.

I know carbs are very configurable. Even feedback carbs. Much more configurable than injectors. What can you do with them, really? Buy new chips, buy new injectors. I really can't think of anything else you can do... Very possible that I wouldn't though, never looked into performance EFI systems. But agian the fact you compaired 85 to 99. What about 86 to 87, the year they switched to feed back? That would have been a better compairison (My guess is you used 85/99 becuse they were in your head, but still...)

A quote, of a quote.

Don't want to have to change the sensors. Just want them to work, if you catch my drift. I'm not saying the newer computers are bad, or even that the old ones are 'bad'. But compairing 99 to 85 is like my salarie to bill gates. There two different ages, dark ages and the renesance... etc. I don't want any computer vodoo in there where I can't jump in and change, by hex if necissary, absolutely anything I please. Sure plenty can go wrong with a carb, but it isn't hidden from me. I can find worn cams, holes, bent rods, broken diaphrams. I also live in a no-emmisions state, so no one there will tell me what to do. And no, I don't flagrantly pollute but again the old New Hampshire "don't tell me what to do" aditude is in my blood.

Good point about changing altitude. Very good point. Now when it's $140ish for an OEM injector, I can't imagine what high performance ones would cost. You know the kind you would need for a turbo or a blower? Jets are quite a bit cheaper... Don't really care about the gas, always got enough and can always get more. I think we both have good points if you catch my drift. Obviously I'm right and your wrong, but you have some good points :-)

Just my feelings. One less thing to break is one more thing to make me happy. I never expected to change any minds, but I didn't really clearly state that I liked my carb because its simpler.

~KJ~

Complexity already addressed in another thread by me, please see it.

Man you are GOOD. Whats the URL to your watch powered server?

This I did not know. I believe you see my point however.

Like next to 0 differences. A good thing. Also a good thing we weren't talking about the engine design.

Crap to shit in my book, but I figured people who knew less about computers would probably be able to compare those two. I know a relay-driven calculator to a semi-conductor chip-driven computer are light years apart, but should both have been recognizable names.

I can't be sure but I believe I had one thread with the carb, and that's just about it. Plenty of other posts, but I would say this truck runs GREAT for the shape it is in. The vehicles I quote are in ALLOT, AYE-LOT better shape and don't drive 1/4 as good. I love my truck and hope to save it and be driving it 20 years from now...

Again I have another thread that I very carefully worded to try to get my thoughts across.

~KJ~

You should have an ECM. Mine is located under the dash behind the glove compartment on my 85 K10.

non-oem. the changeover was in 87

~KJ~

compartment on my 85 K10.

>

Nope. It's OEM. My dad's '85 K-5 5.0 Q-jet with Fed. Emissions had one.

Computer Command Control (CCC) - An electronically-controlled fuel metering system used on GM vehicles. Utilizes an oxygen sensor, a throttle position sensor and other information sensors to provide a computer with the data it needs to alter the air/fuel ratio via a mixture control solenoid in the carburetor.

Not an ECM. TBI was not OEM in that year. From all the information I have seen, either your fathers was still non-oem (a switch for whatever reason) or some weird California thing. In 87 or 88 they switched from the plain old q-jet to TBI, never utilizing the feedback carb.

~KJ~

P.S. to DOC - CCC is what I was trying to think of when I foolishly said BCM - it's almost an ECM but not quite.

You should have an ECM. It will be mounted behind the glove compartment. You will have to take the glove compartment out to find it. Your carb! If it is a feedback, it should have 2 sets of wires going to it: a TPS sensor on the front right and a mixture control on the left side of the carb as you look at it from the front. This was the stock configuration and if it is not there, someone has changed the carb to an older model.

BillG

You should have an ECM. It will be mounted behind the glove compartment. You will have to take the glove compartment out to find it. Your carb! If it is a feedback, it should have 2 sets of wires going to it: a TPS sensor on the front right and a mixture control on the left side of the carb as you look at it from the front. This was the stock configuration and if it is not there, someone has changed the carb to an older model.

BillG