E39 Change Oil Myself?

Your understanding is flawed. Yes, there is less viscosity drift, but even with non-synthetic oils that occurs primarily in the early going. But the main thing you have wrong is that synthetic oil is no more or less capable of "absorbing" compustion byproducts than non-synthetic. This has nothing at all to do with viscosity, but everything to do with why you don't want to leave dirty oil in your engine. This applies especially to people who drive relatively low mileage per annum (as I do) and toy cars such as yours. But, of course, you are free to do whatever you want with your car. Whatever makes you feel good...

Reply to
Fred W
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Not as flawed as yours.

Yes, there is less viscosity drift, but

Correct to an extent. However there are plenty of oils out there that are assessed partly on their ability and capacity to hold contaminants in suspension. That is the imortant point. Extended drain oils as used in modern vehicles with service intervals of up to 30,000 miles have a high tollerance of contaminants which are held harmlessly in suspension. This is partly why it is of no significance whether an oil is mineral or synthetic, both types having oils that meet different duty and longevity intervals as plainly seen by the official STANDARDS met by them.

Dirty oil is relitive. My BMW diesel engine blacks its oil with nasty carbon within five minutes of a fresh change but is good to use for generally over

14000 miles of normal use and its condition is actually monitored in real time by an on-board system.

This

And there is no doubt that recreational oil changing give some owners immense satisfaction and a hollier-than-thou feeling which they like to express by encouraging others to do likewise.

Huw

Reply to
Huw

As versus the extended oil changers who preach "the only true way"?

Reply to
Fred W

No. There is no real 'extended' unless intervals are stretched beyond the manufacturers recommendations. Most normal people just change by the book and don't second guess by modifying 'the book'. There are so many things more important in life and for the economic life of the car come to that. Oil changes as per book should be the least of your worries. However, if it makes *you* feel good, by all means go for it, but stop pretending to yourself that you are 'doing good'. You will do far more good if you do voluntary work for human welfare.

Huw

Reply to
Huw

Agree, but for my 1990 E34 535i, the *recommended" schedule as stated in my service manual:

coolant - every 2 years brake fluid - every 2 years; every year if you track your car manual transmission and differential fluids - every 30K miles

I do as the above states. The only difference is engine oil. I usually burn a quart every 3K-4K, and it gets pretty black, so I change it.

Reply to
bfd

[...]

...which is the bit down to it being *synthetic*

Exactly. ...and until that capacity is exhausted they are effectively "good as new" which is down to the *additive pack*.

Are there extended life mineral oils in practice?

I know road haulage is a big driver for extended life oils and they run engines to *huge* mileages...

Conversely the Castrol SLX which comes out of my ALPINA's V8 looks at most one shade darker than the stuff going in. Admittedly it usually has ~10-15% of its computed life left when changed at the cars annual service after 9-10k miles of use.

I don't mind spending money on maintenance and quality consumables - no cheap tyres for me thanks - but I can't see the point in wasting money on excessive oil changing.

...it's not green either. ;)

A
Reply to
Alistair J Murray

Up to mb228.3 sheet specification they are mineral oils. This spec is generally known as being for '45000 km oil' and is certainly capable of longer drain intervals than most lower order synthetic oils. In practice it is now standard to specify this standard when engines have extremely heavy duty combined with 500 hour service intervals. At an average of 30mph you will easily confirm that this equates to 15,000 miles. Again in practice it is not unusual to find heavy trucks running this kind of mineral oil for up to three times this long with bi-pass filtration. Only in the heaviest duty applications such as used in forage harvesters or tractors engaged in constant full load and full speed use will these oils near their limit of use in 500 hours.

There are several higher specifications but these then do tend to be using synthetic base oil. A light duty specification is 229.5 which is suitable for petrol and diesel engines up to 30,000 miles. Several manufacturers have equivelent specifications. VW group and GM have them. In heavy diesel applications then mb228.5 oil is commonly used for applications with up to

100,000 mile oil change intervals or 3000 operating hours.

I share your attitude. Proper maintenance using quality components at appropriate intervals is what I strive to acheive. I have so many vehicles that it is costly and time consuming to service but even more costly to have downtime due to premature wear or failure. Failure though are inevitable and unavoidable. For instance, last year I had one six litre engine suffer a cylinder failure due to a piston melting. This was indeed a lubrication issue but only because of a stress failure of one under-piston oil spray jet which meant the heavily worked engine had no cooling to that piston crown. I have several engines with between 8500 and 12000 hours up which run like new with no oil consumption or evident wear. These mileages are between

255,000 and 360,000 if you assume an average of 30mph. And I don't even own any heavy trucks.

Huw

Reply to
Huw

2003 E39 page 9 same list but includes m-mobility system (3 yrs and coolant (4 years, M5-3yrs)

R / John

Reply to
John Carrier

If your car is a year old BMW with auto trans, the service manual should spec 100K.

The dash computer counts fuel burned only in liters. Each engine/chassis has a designated number, i.e. 5000 liters. That's it. No timer. The one year oil change interval is a service bulletin put out about 3 years ago. It will not appear in your maintenance manual.

Anecdotal evidence is often a litany of real world experience flying in the face of manufacturer denials. E46 M3 engine is a classic case. BMW had to pushed into the smoking hole before acknowledging there might be a problem with their engines. There's also a nice running tally (anecdotal of course) of premature radiator failures ... typically 8-cylinder cars. Typically out of warantee. As I stated, anecdotal evidence is inconvenient evidence. It is not automatically unreliable just because the manufacturer (or you) says it is.

A rather arrogant statement. BMW has improved in the preventive maintenance arena, just not as much as the current service intervals would suggest. I believe (and BMW CCA tech writers do too) that many of the new intervals are driven by marketing concerns vice significant improvements in the consumables or materials involved.

If low service costs were my primary concern, I'd drive Japanese. I'm willing to pay the added expense to maintain my bimmer because it is the finest handling sedan on the planet. It makes driving fun again.

R / John

Reply to
John Carrier

Interesting that the different models aren't consistent. I wonder what BMW's current recommendation(s) is (are?).

Tom K.

Reply to
Tom K.
[...]

[...lube technical specs...]

I remembered right, you care about oil. :)

...so you don't have to try *that* hard to make oil last 15k miles in a car.

[...]

That's the plan - my ATF (105k in) is being changed as we speak...

...since the car is in having a broken engine mount replaced. :(

The ATF change is partly down to this thread - I didn't know that BMW were recommending 100k changes on newer cars - and my existing conviction that long life != infinite life...

Oil's role as a coolant is often overlooked...

Do engines wear out, in the parts lubed by sump oil, or do they tend to die of catastrophic failure? ...or do they just get overtaken by newer tech?

A
Reply to
Alistair J Murray

My, bought new, UK 2001 530D, did about 14,000 miles between oil changes with my driving style on "the meter". I had oil / filter changed at about half that with oil I supplied to the main dealer who were happy to do it and only charged £25 for a genuine filter and the labour. The technician just before I sold it said the instruction was change as per the meter or every year - it was "every two years" but was revised to "every year" around 2003 apparently.

Nick

Reply to
Nick

"John Carrier" wrote

Except that Toyota has definitely had problems with engines failing due to oil sludge buildup, even with owners following their 5K-7.5K change intervals: google "Toyota oil change sludge".

Although my BMW garage says they have seen sludge build-ups with cars following the (older) 7.5K with dino and 15K synthetic, there doesn't seem to be convincing evidence that the 15K interval is a problem.

But then, I'm following a 7.5K interval in my '01 330xi, because it only costs about $35 for me to do it. GI Joes is even carrying the filter set (Purolator not Mann) now.

FloydR

Reply to
Floyd Rogers

Be aware that the ATF BMW use is a synthetic type and it should be replaced with the proper fluid. Dexron II or III is NOT what you need.

A bit of both. Modern engines designed for a finite life [as engines have always been] using latest finite element analysis should not fail catastrophically until all lubricated components have nearly worn out. Heavy duty engines are somewhat different in that most wearing parts are made to be renewable. I'll let you into a bit of a secret but let's keep it between ourselves ;-) Most light duty engines are built to last between 150,000 and 250,000 given regular maintenance. Medium to heavy engines of maybe up to 7.5 litres are now generally built for 12,000 hours between overhauls and larger heavy duty engines have a design target of 20,000 *between* overhauls.

...or do they just get overtaken by

Technology is constantly changing. In general a well driven and reasonably maintained vehicle will wear out or be removed from use for reasons other than total engine failure. This applies equally to a Ford or a Toyota or a BMW with 15000 mile [approx] service intervals.

Huw

Reply to
Huw

You must be speaking of your own vehicle. Mine has a counter which counts down to the next service and has a date based over-ride if the time is reached before the mileage. It is set at two years. Also the system is much more sophisticated than you allude to and counts cold starts, full acceleration, miles run at below running temperature and, very importantly, the conductivity of the oil.

The one year oil change interval is a service

Mine is set in the dashboard at two years and is also plainly published in warranty and all service literature.

All manufacturers have occassional rogue components or even models within their range from time to time.

There's also a nice

What evidence have you? Around here BMW 3 series outsell and outnumber Ford Mondeo and it seems that every fourth or fifth car is a BMW. There are NO issues and very few people deviate from the dash computers service schedule. My friend had an Audi which ran perfectly for the 200,000 miles he owned it while it was serviced loosely at Audi's service intervals of 20,000 miles. BMW's nominal service interval of 15000 miles looks rather tame compared to the cutting edge which now have service intervals of up to 30,000 miles. No particular issues with those cars either that I have heard of and they are quite common cars these days.

I believe (and BMW CCA tech writers do too) that many

Believe what you like but there are no particular issues with BMW service intervals. In fact the engines, the oils, the filtration and the transmissions of these BMW's are very significantly different from the previous models which had service intervals of 10,000 miles or less.

It may surprise you to know that there are plenty of Japanese cars that are just as much fun. Another couple of friends have bought Nissan 350ZX and Mazda RX7 cars which are great fun. The ironic thing is that a BMW is a well balanced piece of engineering. Not only is it a quality asthetic design but it provides a great driving experience while also pushing the limits to making a car similar to a domestic consumer white good, like a washing machine or a microwave, in its long term maintenance requirement.

Huw

Reply to
Huw

Are you in the USA? If so, the only reason is that in the USA there is so much consumer resistance to longer service intervals. You have been brainwashed since birth to service vehicles every 3000 miles. OTOH there is undoubtedly a faction that seldom service cars at all. I suspect that the silent majority couldn't care less about this subject.

Huw

Reply to
Huw

While I can only speak for M54 and M62 engines, I can assure you there's no timer. My 2003 E39 has a series of lights, 5 green, 1 amber, 1 red. The green lights extenguish one by one (about every 2400 miles in my case), the amber illuminates to indicate service, the red service past due. The cycle is Oil, Insp 1, Oil, Insp 2 and so forth. There's a simple procedure (on

2001 and sub cars) that allows a reset of the system. While I cannot speak for the cars with the newer magnesium block, I can assure you there's no magic computations going on in the computer nor does it analyze the oil (If you want to prove it to yourself, do an oil change about half way through the cycle ... won't change things a bit) nor run a calendar. This applies to ANY bimmer with these engines. The system in older cars (e34, e36) counted stuff like start cycles, etc. The engineers found that the correlation with fuel burned was close enough to eliminate all the other inputs.

If you have good reason to believe differently, I'd be happy to read the documents. If you're basing it on something your dealer told you, I've got this bridge in New York I'd like to sell you ...

The 2 year recommendation in the owners manual has been superceded by a service bulletin. If you're in the US and get free maintenance, that means a free oil change every year or every service interval, whichever comes first (through 50K/4Years).

What was that? "Anecdotal evidence"?

Filters are little changed. Oils have improved. What consumer vehicle has a 30K oil service interval?

Note the word "sedan." Yes, there are many great cars to drive out there, but those that provide great handling and seating for 4 adults are quite rare. I have a particular fondness for a very expensive Italian marque ... but while I could afford a nice used machine, proper PM is beyond my reach (a lesson learned the hard way).

R / John

Reply to
John Carrier

John, Thanks for the information. I really appreciate the help.

Other than the dealer, is there a preferred place to buy the filter kit? I understand that oil filters can differ in quality.

Thanks,

Ambrose

Reply to
ambrose88

Is this the same for the 530d (oil grade too)

Reply to
DCA

Did you read his Q properly??????

snip

Reply to
DCA

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