If I may speak for my fellow Americans, the "perception" is that V12's are hideously expensive, cantankerous beasts. This is partially due to those that Jaguar used to sell us. There's also the perception that more than 8 cylinders is redundant, unless one is chasing the
*ultimate* in smoothness.I see that you prefer Aston and Jaguar interiors, and V12 engines. You must be pretty hard to please. Me, I'll take a BMW I6 and an Audi interior, and I'll be plenty happy.
The only problem with the engines in the USA was that owners didn't maintain them or the dealers didn't maintain them properly. There are a couple of jobs that are expensive because they are time consuming. In consequence basic maintenance would be avoided and the heads would often warp leading to real longterm problems. Jag V12s can be stunningly reliable and the straight six Jag engine was just about bomb-proof.
Mind you most British owners abused the V12s as well.
An 8 doesn't have the inherent balance of a multiple of 6, so IMO it's not "ultimate" smoothness it's just that 6 and 12 works without mucking about with balancer shafts. Sadly V6's don't have the same characteristic and the Cologne 4.0 V6 in my current vehicle is nowhere near as good as the straight 6 4.0 Jag engine. OTOH the Cologne V6 is nowadays very reliable.
I'm not that hard to please, it's just that having experienced those sort of cars everything else is a bit disappointing.
I'll just say that a 90-degree V8 can be balanced pretty darn well, and without "balancer shafts". Indeed, I think it's safe to say that, in the history of the world, never has a 90-degree V8 with balancer shaft(s) been made.
Is it as smooth as a 60-degree V12? No, but look at the prices of V12-equipped cars. In sum, I don't think that Americans think that "V8 is the best" - it's just a damn good compromise.
I'll just say that the current Volvo 4.4 V8 has a balance shaft, and IIRC it's the same engine used in the Ford Taurus. Also every GM annnouncement about new V8s for 20010 onwards has featured (a) balance shaft(s). Oh and that a 90 degree V8 isn't really balanced, you have a choice between a single plane crankshaft and an engine that shakes side to side or a two plane crankshaft with an uneven firing order and horribly irregular loads.
I very much enjoyed the Jaguar V12s when we had them in the family. We had a Series 3 Sovereign and our Michael had an XJ-S. Neither of them were bought new, and we put quite a lot of miles on them, but we had no engine problems that I can recall, so I don't know about them being hideously expensive, cantankerous beasts.
To me they were lovely engines, and if driven steadily on a long journey their fuel consumption was quite respectable, but I've no means of knowing how the Jaguar V12 compared with the V12s produced by BMW or Mercedes.
I agree witb Steve about the V12 being more appealing, and of course it had rarity value compared with an 'ordinary' V8 which although very good, always seem to produce an uneven waffling noise that I never liked.
Ha, uneven and waffly - a bit like me then. :-)
Best wishes all, Dave.
That seems a fair view to take.
Best wishes all, Dave.
I've never bothering trying to figure out what makes a V8 sound uneven, but they always give me the impression that one or two plug leads have come undone.
Best wishes all, Dave.
They do that because it's impossible to get a 90 degree V8 to have an even firing sequence and to eliminate vibration at the same time. Even when the crank is balanced with the crank throws spaced at 90 degree intervals the cams will have to be unbalanced and the firing order results in that uneven waffling noise you complain about.
My Ecotec V6 is pretty smooth.
Otherwise known as the V8 "burble," that many people seem to love for some reason.
Contrast that with the hair raisingly *gorgeous* sound of a flat-plane crank V8 at full chat...
Yup, sounds great vibrates "quite a bit".
"Martin" wrote
Only because it has balance shafts, which rob power and add weight.
FloydR
Ah, well there we part company for the time being. I can understand the appeal of a powerful high performance car, but I like the performance to be produced in a quiet and refined fashion.
Over on PistonHeads they seem to greatly enjoy the bellow and thunder of a powerful V8 (as in a TVR for example) but I don't think such a device would be very comfortable for travelling long distances. A lot of noise can soon get very tiring. They strike me as an occasional fun car type of thing.
Best wishes all, Dave.
No it doesn't
Any idea how much power is lost, Floyd? I ask because the latest 1200cc BMW boxer twins now have balance shafts and are achieving over 100 bhp per litre, roughly 20% more than the previous 1150cc version.
Tom K.
"Martin" wrote
Could be US vs. UK spec engines. Or perhaps you're right.
However, no V6 engine is as vibration-free as an inline-6.
FloydR
"Tom K." wrote
Balance shafts don't rob a lot of power - after all it's just a spinning shaft. However, they do have affect the responsiveness of the engine - it takes power to spin them up (and down). Every competition engine/drivetrain has a "lightened" fly wheel for that very reason.
FloydR
It has one balance shaft.
Can't take Jag and Aston serious since they went the Ford Mondeo clone route and didn't stop there because they also transferred over the crap centre console design to extend to half way up the dash. Nothing wrong in that except it's also a FORD ting throughout the UK (and maybe Euro and US) thing and this makes all Jags remind you of the Repmobile Mondeo and when you look at the inside of an Aston there is virtually no difference to the Jag XKE or Mondeo or X type Jag/Mondeo clone.
The new Jag is something else, however, and - had I not bought an E65 7 Series BMW I might (only might) have been persuaded to try a New Jag......?
The problem is that many manufactures think that lopping off 2 cyls from a V8 will give them a V6 but unless the angle is moved tighter - 60 deg - instead of
- 90deg - it will always be out of balance.
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