I just brought my 2001 PT Cruiser LE in for brake pads. Upon inspection, I was told that the caliper pistons would need to be rebuilt. I was told that due to the excessive heat from the non-asbestos pads, the phenolic plastic pistons had slightly deformed and therefore did not fully retract when the brakes were released. They said this was a common problem with "today's brake systems." The cost for rebuilding the pistons, turning the rotors, replacing all pads, and flushing and refilling brake fluid was $600. Is this legitimate, or am I being bent over?
Yes. Calipers stick because the pins and inner bushings are not taken apart and cleaned and relubed with a good synthetic lube. Rebuilt calipers are about $25.00. It is all an easy do it yourself job. It takes about one hour. You figure it out. I have never heard of the defect your dealer describes, and besides, no one rebuilds these today since rebuilds are so cheap.
Did they say the "calipers would have to be rebuilt" or did they say you needed "new calipers" ?
The only moving part inside a caliper is the piston, and the only other part that is normally replaced with the piston is a seal. FYI, the cost for a piston and seal for the rear caliper of a 2000 300M is under $20. The cost for a new caliper is well over $100.
Were these the original pads the car came with from the factory? (if yes, then ask them why would Chrysler put the wrong pads on the car in the first place). If not, were they put on at the dealer during a previous brake job? In either of those 2 cases, if they admit that the car had the *wrong* brake pads, then ask them why you should have to foot the bill for the dammage caused by the *wrong* pads that were put on the car.
By the way, are there *any* pads with asbestos in them that are either (a) OEM or (b) available for passenger car use (ie not racing) ???
(aren't ALL passenger car pads now fully non-asbestos at this point???)
Yes, the pistons are (probably) phenolic (resembing "bakelite"). If they are deformed, then they should be causing a leak (maybe not with the old pads, but only when new pads are put on and the pistons are forced deeper into the cylinder).
The premise of their entire explanation rests on their assertion that the old brake pads are non-asbestos. I'm pretty sure that non-asbestos pads are the defacto standard type in common use and that brake calipers and pistons are designed for this type of pad (which is metallic or semi-metallic (organic?)).
Ask them if (as part of their service) they would put on asbestos-containing brake pads to correct this "problem". IF they say yes, ask to see the box the pads come in.
How many sets of pads has this vehicle had so far in it's life? Normally I would expect the calipers to last at least 4 brake jobs (or the life of the vehicle) without needing piston-related service.
AND
If you are not experiencing any brake-pulsing or steering-wheel shaking during braking, then there is NO REASON to turn the rotors.
It's quite common for garages to want to turn your rotors along with replacing the pads (whether the rotors need turning or not). To want to do work on the calipers themselves (like replace ALL 4 PISTONS) is a new low. The half-ass reason that the pads are non-asbestos is just that - a half-ass reason.
If you are not leaking brake fluid RIGHT NOW, then your pistons are fine.
Go to another brake shop.
PS: What sort of factory warrany does an 01 PT have with respect to covering premature brake-caliper wear or dammage?
Sounds like BS to me, today's pads and rotors are softer, since asbestos can't be used anymore, and to lower the amount of noise from the brakes, so I doubt "excessive heat" is a problem.
I would get a second opinion, and I would check out the cost of having rebuilt calipers put in, rather than having those rebuilt, if the calipers do need to be fixed/replaced. Check ou the cost of new rotors as well, instead of having the old ones turned. For what you are being charged for shaving off part of your rotors, new ones might be cost-effective.
If you are at a dealer, I would RUN, not walk, to the nearest reputable brake shop, even if all the work you describe has to be done, you will save big bucks. No need for a dealer to do this work, brakes are very rarely covered by warranty.
The shop I went to was "Just Brakes," a supposedly reputable chain here in the Atlanta area.
More specifics:
My PT Cruiser has 58,000 miles on it. I've had the front brakes replaced once previously, at the Chrysler dealer. Rear were original
- or "virgin," as he called them. My brakes seemed to work fine, I only brought it in to have pads installed because the rear pads looked low, and I wanted to get them replaced before I did start to have problems. Braking was smooth, did not pull, pulse, or shake, and there were no leaks.
He showed me the pads had uneven wear, specifically the outside pad was about half the thickness of the inside pad. He told me the cause of that was the piston problem...
Another question, if the pistons were not retracting fully, wouldn't that mean that the pads were in constant contact with the rotors? And if that were the case, wouldn't I see excessive brake dust? (And would the rear pads have lasted 58,000 miles?)
He saw you coming...bringing a vehicle in for work that wasn't indicated by any symptoms. Probably figured you for someone who wants to do the right thing and avoid problems, and then took advantage of that.
Wear between inboard and outboard pads will not necessarily be "even". In some brake systems, the wear is at significantly different rates. As long as the pads are both at least the minimum thickness, it's not a problem.
Pads are *supposed* to be in constant contact with the rotors. They don't retract, per se, they just 'coast' along the surface of the rotor all the time with little or no clamping force applied by the caliper when you're not braking.
Rear pads on a FWD vehicle have been known to last much longer than 58K miles. Mine on my Intrepid went almost 90K miles.
Yep. As it turns out, you have found a shop that isn't as reputable as you were led to believe.
Unfortunately, as you have found out, Just Brakes is not a reputable chain. They appear on the news as much as the weather it seems. They attract customers with their four wheel $99 special and then sell them stuff they don't need.
IF THE PISTONS WERE STICKING THE INNER PAD WOULD SHOW MORE WEAR THAN THE OUTER PAD. I'll stop yelling now. If the caliper sticks on the guides then there will be excessive wear on the outer pad as compared to the inner pad. I'll start yelling again... RUN, MAN, RUN to somehwere other than just brakes. Sounds like that shop is hungry. :)
Rear brake pads tend to wear at 1/2 to 1/3 the rate of the fronts. Even though they are smaller. 58k miles on 2 sets of front pads sounds like normal wear.
It's normal for a difference in the wear between the inside and outside pads.
I've never seen pads that are *fully* retracted from the rotors. The reason for this is that if you're working on a parked car, the last thing you do before you put the car in park is to take your foot off the brake. When you jack the car up and try to turn the wheel, there will be friction between the rotor and pad. Assuming the wheel isin't locked in park, you should easily be able to rotate the wheel if the tire is still on it. If the tire is off, and you've got a good grip on the lug posts, you should be able to turn the hubs.
Now drum brakes are a different story.
The formation of brake dust will depend on the type of pads. OEM pads (metallic and semi-organic) are relatively hard and don't dust very much. They are also hard on rotors if driven agressively (and are more prone to gassing or brake fade in situations like that). The pads that cause more dust tend to be used for performance driving (auto-cross).
Assuming you got 60k miles from 2 sets of front pads and 60k miles on
1 set of rear pads - AND YOU ARE NOT EXPERIENCING SHAKING OR PULSING WHILE BRAKING (and a bad smell isin't coming from your wheels because your brakes aren't leaking) then there is nothing wrong with your calipers (or rotors).
Well...no. They're not "supposedly reputable", they just advertise themselves widely, is all. You apparently did exactly what all advertisers hope you will do: make the spurious translation from "advertised" to "reputable".
Last winter at 40,000 miles I heard a rear noise. One of the prongs from an inner pad that fits in the piston broke off from rust. A dealer charged me about $75.00 to change the pads with an OEM set for the rear.
Two weeks ago, at 52,000 miles, to cure a pulse, I ordered Brembo Rotors and ceramic pads from Tire Rack for the front. I put them on in about an hour myself. I lubed the pins with synthetic lube. The expensive parts, with shipping was under $250.00. The pulse is gone and I am happy.
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