500 ppm diesel still readily available......

Beleive me, you filled up with ULSD.

Mandates require it be in all retail locations October 15, 2006.

In California by Sept 1, 2006.

Only place you still buy 500 ppm is outside California is for offroad, Marine and locomotive uses until June 1. Unless you go to Mexico where you can still buy yellow diesel. (yellow because it has so much sulphur in it)

California pumps carry no label because the fuel is mandated statewide - no choice so no need for a label on the #2 pump. Specific EPA labeling exemption for California fuel retailers.

Gee... sound so copyrighted!

Don't fool yourself- Cat, Cummins, and Navistar are still way ahead of the european diesel manufacturers. The Europeans were having fits of ecstasy over common-rail injection when it had been on the Cummins in the Ram for 2 model years.

Hah! Let me get this straight: We (the U.S.) have 800 ppm diesel, and Mexico has Diesel that has so much sulfur in it that it is called "yellow diesel"?

Did I miss something? Isn't Mexico a member of the Kyoto Treaty? Isn't it ironic that we catch so much crap for not signing Kyoto, and yet, we are stricter on ourselves than Kyoto is on its own members. To quote Mel Brookes: "Woof!!".

Bill Putney (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my address with the letter 'x')

what part of 80% don't you get? if it is required that 80% of diesel sold be the new stuff, then 20% can be the dirtier stuff, you found the 20%

That 80% is 100% of retail locations for automobiles

No, the US has 5 ppm diesel. The US used to sell high sulphur diesel until I think till the 80s That is why the pump handles were yellow, but now green. Notice the fuel containers are still yellow.

Just because they may be a member does not mean it takes effect imediatly or that the treaty called for reduction of sulphur in diesel. Have you read the treaty?

It's actually was .05% sulphur content. Not all areas have the high sulplur diesel. Problem is it's high sulfur content is unkind to turbochargers, and electronic metered fuel circuits. They sell 500 PPM disel in most of Mexico now. PEMEX is suppose to start making 5 ppm diesel later this year.

Then I guess that begs the question even more: What value is Kyoto if we here in the U.S. (a non-member) control environmental minutia that Kyoto apparently doesn't even address and that its members like Mexico are way further behind in? IOW - why are we supposed to feel guilty for not signing when we apparently do better relying on our own integrity than signers are required to do by what they signed?

No I haven't.

Not following you there. *What* was actually 0.05% sulphur content? BTW

- 0.05% is the same as 500 ppm.

Not all areas have the high sulplur

Bill Putney (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my address with the letter 'x')

Yea - but the year is wrong on the copyright (still says 2006)

© 2007 Josh. Publication in any form is highly encouraged

Ya know, if you post to a public news group I think it becomes public property. I'm not a copywrite lawyer, I just play one in cyberspace.

"-->> T.G. Lambach

This exact notion has been debated to death on usenet literally for decades and here's what I take to be consensus.

When you post to usenet it's understood you're giving an implicit right to copy as when you hit send you're saying "send this everywhere" and of course the article is copied on hundreds if not thousands of times. Morso it's impossible to delete an article for all practical purposes once it's been sent.

I do not know where you are getting that. First there is no 5 PPM requirement yet and the US had nothing but a 500 PPM standard until about a year ago after EPA mandated the change some time before that and also not current Dodge sold today as it is equipped meets NOx emissons for 2008 as they will have more equipment added to them in 08 and the new CTS will gain about 130 pounds in the process for additional emission controls added to it. THe main reason for LSD is so they can add true CATS to them (not thermo reracotrs mistaken for CATS) staring in 08 as sulpher need to be at or below 50 PPM for CATS to work on them. Any high sulpher fuel around here is just from stocks because it is not longer being made and even off road will be LSD.

----------------- TheSnoMan.com

Now, how many times do you have to read the encyclopedia before you understand that what your calling a thermo reactor is infact by definition a Catalytic Converter. I've posted that same thing to you several times, and in fact even DODGE disagrees with you, they call it a catalyst also! so there is no mistaken point other than yours.

You are the one brain dead here, That thermo reactor (or TR for short) is for suspended particulates and it is not a CAT!! Sulpher in fuel in past would kill it big time (they had to remove it from gas starting in early 70's along with lead to make way for CATS on them starting in

75) but then there are always the uninformed like yourself that think they know all the answers and still believe it is a CAT. Cut one apart and you will find that it is not a CAT. Starting in 2008 with LSD they will have CATS. Your reliance on WinPedia proves your true lack of understanding of automotive emission technology

----------------- TheSnoMan.com

My typos... 15 ppm

Then why does the engineers that write the FSM call it a Cat? Come on man!

and my reliance on wikipedia is as a simple tool to provide reliable information anyone can check and read. if you wish you too could google catalytic converter and find as much information on the subject as you wish. I'm not going to post it all. just the easiest to understand. notice the very last link I posted in this post. it was from Cummins the engine company that builds the very engine you claim so much knowledge about, and what do they call your Thermal Reactor????

say what you will about my understanding, I on the other hand along with the service managers I have worked with over the years know different.

straight from the wikipedia site:

Two-way catalytic convertersA two-way catalytic converter has two simultaneous tasks: 1.. Oxidation of carbon monoxide to carbon dioxide: 2CO + O2 ? 2CO2 2.. Oxidation of unburnt hydrocarbons (unburnt and partially-burnt fuel) to carbon dioxide and water: 2CxHy + (x+y)O2 ? 2xCO2 + yH2O This type of catalytic converter is widely used on diesel engines to reduce hydrocarbon and carbon monoxide emissions. They also were used on spark ignition (gasoline) engines in automobiles up until 1981, when they were replaced by three-way converters due to regulatory changes requiring reductions on NOx emissions.

Curiously the regulations regarding hydrocarbons vary according to the engine regulated, as well as the jurisdiction. In some cases what is regulated is "non-methane hydrocarbons" and in other cases the regulated substance is "total hydrocarbons". Technology for one application (to meet a non-methane hydrocarbon standard) may not be suitable for use in an application that has to meet a total hydrocarbon standard. Methane is more difficult to break down in a catalytic converter, so in effect a "non-methane hydrocarbon" standard can be considered to be looser. However since methane is a greenhouse gas, more interest is rising in how to eliminate emissions of it.

[edit] Diesel Engines For compression ignition (I.e., Diesel) engines, the most commonly used catalytic converter is the diesel oxidation catalyst. The catalyst uses excess O2 (oxygen) in the exhaust gas stream to oxidize CO (Carbon Monoxide) to CO2 (Carbon Dioxide) and HC (hydrocarbons) to H2O (water) and CO2. These converters often reach 90% effectiveness, virtually eliminating diesel odor and helping to reduce visible particulates (soot), however they are incapable of reducing NOx as chemical reactions always occur in the simplest possible way, and the existing O2 in the exhaust gas stream would react first.

To reduce NOx on a compression ignition engine it is necessary to change the exhaust gas - two main technologies are used for this - selective catalytic reduction (SCR) and NOx (NOx) traps (or NOx Adsorbers).

Another issue for diesel engines is particulate (soot). This can be controlled by a soot trap or diesel particulate filter (DPF), as catalytic converters are unable to affect elemental carbon (however they will remove up to 90% of the soluble organic fraction). A clogging soot filter creates a lot of back pressure decreasing engine performance. However, once clogged, the filter goes through a regeneration cycle where diesel fuel is injected directly into the exhaust stream and the soot is burned off. After the soot has been burned off the regeneration cycle stops and injection of diesel fuel stops. This regeneration cycle will not affect performance of the engine.

All major diesel engine manufacturers(Ford, Caterpillar, Cummings, Volvo, MMC) starting January 1, 2007 are required to have a catalytic converter and a soot filter inline, as per a new DoT legislation(citation needed)

here's you a few more

a manufacturer's brochure on Diesel Catalyst

from Cummins.com

Cleanest. Combining advanced in-cylinder technologies, including a Bosch flexible 1800-bar High Pressure Common Rail fuel system with Cummins next-generation cooled Exhaust Gas Recirculation (EGR) and Variable Geometry Turbocharger (VGTTM), plus advanced exhaust aftertreatment technology, every Dodge Ram pickup will comply with the 2010 NOx and PM emissions standards. The advanced aftertreatment system includes a close-coupled diesel oxidation catalyst, a NOx adsorber catalyst and a combined diesel oxidation/particulate filter. The engine also incorporates a proprietary closed crankcase ventilation (CCV) system to eliminate crankcase fumes and "driveway drips." These advanced technologies require the use of Ultra-Low Sulfur Diesel (ULSD) fuel in order to meet the tough 2007 and 2010 regulations.

notice 2 things.

--1 they (Cummins) said its a catalyst

--2 they mention the ULSD not LSD another point where you are wrong but hey I'm not going bother you on this one, your having enough trouble with the

1st.

Now I have stated two of my many reputable sources for my statement that what you are calling a Thermal Reactor is in fact a Catalyst. now show me where I am wrong.

I'll be seeing with this glass eye before that happens!!!!!

I figure "Stupid" will do what he has always done when he post's BS info. He will ignore you or will tell you that you are insecure or perhaps bore ya to death about a dump truck, a old suburban or perhaps a race car. He sucks, that's all there is to it.

Because it is a accepted term. A CAT has rare elements in it the reacts with hot gas to convert the emissions passing thru it. These same elements are destroyed quickly by high sulpher in fuel. A thermo reactor helps burn and lower the suspended particulates that diesels are famous for and are aways present. Why do you think the EPA ordered sulpher out? It was so they could start putting true CATs on oil burners and fully address the very high NOx and true grams per mile emissons that they produce. (one diesel makes as much NOX as about 5 to 10 cars in grams per mile) The reason diesels appear clean is because they have a high volume of air flowing thru them which dilutes emissions and makes PPM low when actually grams per mile is high. Gas engines have a much lower air flow thru them and at same PPM emit far less grams per mile than a diesel. Diesels are finally going to have to comply fully with emission requirements like gas engines have been for over 30 years now. You will see diesel ratings decline in coming years and economy suffer too as regs kick in because allow with exoitic injection systems to limit NOx they will also lower CR and boost to reduce NOx generation to begin with. Thye will either have to get bigger (more displacment for same power with less boost) or see ratings fade. Diesel have had a unfair edge in emissions for many years and loop hole is finially closing and long overdue.

----------------- TheSnoMan.com