cold air

Everything is NOT normal at "cold" temps. Yes, density and thus O2 content increases as temperature decreases, however...

The efficiency of vehicles operating in cold temps decreases. I notice this when it gets colder than -20C (about 0F) here in the middle of Canada. Last week it was -41C (about -43F) and my vehicles were burning a lot more gasoline than normal.

Driving in cold weather causes more wear on my vehicles than driving in summer. The CV boot rubber always seem to crack and break in winter. Coincidence?? I don't think so.

Ken W> Assuming everything is at normal operating temperature:

And he knows of what he speaks, winter-wise.

I think all immigrants to Canada should have to land in Winnipeg in February, then decide if they really want to stay.

Wind starts in Calgary and just keeps going till it hits Winnipeg!.

The best way to see Winnipeg is from 30,000 feet at midnight!

(only kidding, i know lots of people who now live elsewhere that think its the greatest place to leave) (that doesn't sound right |>)))

Dan

"sachin" wrote

Well, are you talking theoretical vs. practical?

Theoretically, the highest heat engine efficiency is found when the exhaust temp is absolute zero - 2nd lawof thermodynamics at work.

However, for auto engines, if the intake air is so cold that the fuel doesn't atomize well (in the combustion chamber or intake manifold), then things start to go bad due to unburned fuel. Modern engines depend more upon the injector spray to atomize the fuel, however, so the limit is lower, I'm sure.

Pontiac advertised 15-20hp for their ram-air system on the Firebird.

IIRC, intercoolers for turbocharged engines do up to 50hp.

Floyd

I remember from college physics that as the temperature drops, more energy is expended in keeping the engine block at operating temperature, so the benefits of the denser, cooler air are offset (and ultimately lost as the temp goes down.)

Seat of the pants experience would suggest that about 50F and slightly humid is good "makin' horsepower" weather -- at least in a vehicle for which no special measures have been taken to collect cool air (i.e. stock induction.) The effect is noticeable.

--Geoff

Additional point. No one does any drag racing here (nor at Brainerd, Minnesota) in the winter. Removing any snow from the track is simple, so the snow is not the problem. I don't think it is because the increased density causes increased air drag resulting in poorer time results ;-)

Perhaps it is because there is just so much snow mibile rac> Everything is NOT normal at "cold" temps. Yes, density and thus O2 content

I may be because even a guy that will strap himself into one of those things and accelerate to 300+ mph in less than 5 seconds has "some" brains and wants to stay out of the cold. |>)))

Dan

If you think about what you are suggesting, Canadian cars would be infinitely more powerful than their US counterparts, and people in the Southern US states would be fitting refrigeration units to the intakes rather than swapping headers and fitting dual 4 barrel carbs..

Haven't you ever heard of an intercooler? Lowering intake temps is a good way to get more power.

Didn't Ford have some luck hooking their supercharger up to the air conditioner? I can't find any references to it but I vaguely recall reading about it.

But in the case of the intercooler, you are attempting to lower the temperature of the intake are only, after you have increased its temperature by compressing it.

Whole different thing from cold, un-compressed air entering a vehicle system that is surrounded by cold.

Dan

The air is still colder and will generate more power. It may not be all that significant, and it may also be contaminated by engine heat under the hood, but it still will make a small difference.

Yes, but the inefficiencies of having the rest of the vehicle in system cold (including the fuel) negate the advantage.

As someone said earlier, around 50 deg F, with some humidity in the air, seems to be where the two lines cross for most vehicles.

Also, in cold, wintery weather, there is a lot of "zero mpg" time |>))

Dan

Here's a real world observation. When the temperature is in the 80's, my race car will hit 130-132 mph at the end of the back straight at Mid Ohio. When temperature is in the 50's it will hit 135-137 mph.

Jim C.

What are you driving . . . a Camry? :) -Dave

In theory it may make a difference. However, cold temps increases "the drag" hugely, especially in the drive train beyond the engine

What will it do below zero F, or warmer, say zero C? Let us know. That will basically nail down everything about this thread. I should talk with some of the "stockers" here for their observations.

Ken

"Jim C." wrote:

Not quite. Its a stock class Porsche 968.

Jim C.

The only time I ever drove it there below 40 degrees F it was raining/sleeting, which obviously slowed things down. Frankly, I hope never to be there when its that cold again :-)

Jim C.

My car, with intercoolers and two smallish blow driers, has noticably more punch in cool temps and noticably less punch when it's over 100 degrees.

What, it only does ~130??? You sure it's not a camry? :) -Dave