1 millionth Prius sold in the USA

But the fact remains, the price premium for a hybrid doesn't pay off for a very, very long time--enough time that most people don't have the car anymore.

I believe that depends on what you might have bought instead of a hybrid.

That assumes that you would have bought a car of comparable size and equipment.

If you're comparing a Prius to an Escalade...well, then, you're an idiot.

At the time I bought my Prius (September, 2004), a comparably equipped Camry was about the same price.

Right--but it's a larger vehicle that does different things, including getting much worse mileage. Not comparable.

Corolla is always bandied about as "get one of those for $12K, and use the $10K difference to pay for gas--and since the Corolla gets 35mpg, you can run it forever and still have money left over". No, the Corolla is *not* comparable to the Prius. Sit in them both, and you'll see.

Toyota did one thing smart with the Prius--its size slots it right between Corolla and Camry.

On Apr 7, 5:33 am, "Elmo P. Shagnasty" wrote: . . .

Source?

Bob Wilson

The dealer's lot.

Well, at the time those were the two cars I compared before buying. I don't know what the situation is now, but in 2004 the Camry and Prius had about the same interior space, front and rear. The Camry's edge was in cargo space.

That's not a "fact" Shagnasty. I've had a Prius for 100k miles and estimate that I've saved about 1150 gallons of gasoline over that time versus driving an equivalent non-hybrid vehicle. In addition, the Prius has not needed any of the following that are typically required on a non-hybrid vehicle during that mileage period: brake relining, transmission servicing, starter motor replacement, alternator replacement, timing belt replacement, serpentine belt replacement, and battery replacement. I would estimate that not having to do any of those has saved me an addition several thousand dollars. There's a reason why there have been a million Prius' sold.

WHAT "equivalent non-hybrid vehicle"?

Ummmm...when was the last time you bought a car? 1950?

What "equivalent" piece of junk car are you comparing the Prius to? One that needs, inside of 100K miles, transmission service, starter replacement, alternator replacement, timing belt replacement, serpentine belt replacement, and battery replacement?

If that's your idea of an "average modern car," it simply means you don't get out much--or else you're making s*it up out of thin air to try to rationalize the Prius purchase.

Gee, which one could it be...

The number of Prius on the road are increasing in the DC area...

Last year, about this very same time, I replace my 1990 Honda Accord LX (20 mpg annual average fuel usage, +175K miles ) with a 2011 Toyota Prius III (58 mpg annual average fuel usage). I have drive 11,000 mile over the course of one year with the average price being about 3.00/ gallon. If I had kept on using the Accord I would have used 550 gallons of gas at an approximate cost of $1650.00. Instead, with the Prius I used

As the temperature is warming up the Prius MPG is climbing back up. With gasoline prices rising agains, this is a welcome relief. (9_9)

disclaimer ========= While a significant number of 2010 Toyota Prius owners on PriusChat have also reported an overall 58 mpg, some more experienced hypermilers have said the upper limit is more like an overall +60mpg (with the FE breakdown something like 55 mpg during the winter, 75mpg during the summer). Hypermiling is not possible all the time in certain driving environments so an overall 58 mpg represents more of a compromise when to apply hypermiling concepts/techniques.

Hmmm. In 1950, cars lacked serpentine belts, timing belts, disc brakes, automatic transmissions, had generators instead of alternators, and were generally no longer running at 100,000 miles.

Ignoring your reference to fecal matter, you don't seem to know very much about cars. All of the items mentioned are typically required on a car prior to reaching 100,000 miles on the odometer. If you fail to replace the timing belt on your Honda Accord by 100,000 miles, for example, you would be exposing yourself to a major risk of serious engine damage. If you fail to get your brakes relined before 100,000 miles on most cars with typical service, you would probably be hearing grinding noises from the front end. If you don't bother to replace your serpentine belt, you might find that you are broken down by the side of the road when the belt fails and that water pump driven by the serpentine belt quits pumping. The lead-acid battery on most cars will not be holding much of a charge by the time the car reaches 100,000 miles, especially if the battery has been cranking the starter a lot in cold weather. Of course, the Prius also has a small relatively inexpensive lead-acid battery (located in the back) but unlike non-hybrid cars, the lead-acid battery on a Prius is not used to start the car and consequentally doesn't get the same sort of drain-and-charge service cycles that a starter battery on a non-hybrid vehicle does. Transmission service? You can skip the manufacturer's recommended service interval for that for a non-hybrid car (typically 60,000 to

Bottom line, Shagnasty, is that the maintenance and repair costs described above run into thousands of dollars over the course of 100,000 miles and are not even required for a Prius during the same interval. And that's a fact.

You're rationalizing the Prius purchase.

Look, I own a Prius. But I also recognize that no modern car purchased today needs any of the crap you claimed, not inside of 100K miles.

Get back into reality.

A modern Accord doesn't have a timing belt anymore.

How much about cars to you know?

And when they DID need timing belts changed, the spec was 105K miles--not "under 100K miles".

How much about cars do you know?

Honda chose to use an interference engine. Other manufacturers choose to do a non-interference engine. So, the damage you claim is not inherent to a timing belt breaking; it's inherent to the engine design. Some equivalent cars, should they use a timing belt, will suffer no damage if the belt breaks.

But plenty of other equivalent cars use a timing chain like the Prius.

But let's not forget: the chain is not maintenance free either.

How much about cars do you know?

Let's assume you know quite a bit about cars. That makes your statements even worse, because that means you are knowingly and intentionally lying in order to defend and rationalize your Prius purchase and discussion.

Your Prius purchase requires no defense or rationalization, yet you act as if it does. Gee, I wonder why.

See, there you go again with your intentional deceit.

The Prius battery is not "relatively inexpensive". It's quite expensive for what it is, compared to a regular 12v car battery, because it's an unusual part with low demand.

What that comes down to is, it costs the same--or more--to replace as does a normal 12v car battery.

toyotapartscheap.com has it for $111. That's OEM, which is usually more expensive than aftermarket. NAPA doesn't even show one for the Prius--NAPA?? Tell me again how "common" this battery is. Most people will end up with Optima (more expensive) or going to the dealer simply because you can't find it at the local auto parts stores.

And it does go bad, at the same rate as the batteries that are used in non-hybrid ICE cars. It still needs replaced every five years or so.

Why would that be? Because Toyota knows damn well that the battery needs only open some relays to make the car come to Ready. So, it's optimized for that duty, and nothing more. They didn't waste the money, space, or weight on that battery being anything more than it had to be. So, relative to its duties, it has the same performance envelope and lifetime as the larger traditional 12v batteries that start the car twice a day.

So it's not "relatively inexpensive," and anyone who's driven a Prius for any length of time or has spent any time paying attention on a Prius web forum knows that it needs replaced at about the same intervals.

Again, you're intentionally lying to try to make your rationalizations seem logical.

What "recommended service" are you referring to? What type of transmission? Manual? Automatic? What type of automatic?

Pay attention to Prius technical experts, and they'll have you changing the transmission oil well inside 100K miles to keep your fuel mileage up.

See, you're making things up out of thin air, not defining what you're talking about, and so on.

Excellent choice and I agree! Looking at dealer lot inventories, March

Yes in deed, just 32 days with no reason other than customer demand and limited supply.

Bob Wilson

It has metric battery posts but a quick visit to any hardware store can provide #4-#6 gauge wire and posts to make two, jumpers that bolt into the existing ground and B+ clamp:

More or less, owner's choice. Fortunately, the Prius electronics allows use of batteries for whom 'cranking amps' are not an issue. The traction battery turns the engine.

Bob Wilson