Fiat and engines

Unless Fiat builds something larger than a golf cart, I can't see them needing any of Chrysler's engines.

Daimler management set the stage for Chrysler's problems. Too much use of German-made / German-designed suspension and drive train components. The LX platform rides too high and is too heavy for anything other than large cars and large SUV's. It leads to a boxy-style vehicle.

Any car built on the LX platform struggles to reach 3700 lbs curb weight, a full 200 lbs more than the LH platform.

Under Cerebus management, Chrysler's design teams were gutted, which is why Chrysler has nothing left in the design toolbox.

It's a sad day indeed when Chrysler must rely on Fiat even for a mid-sized car design.

The Challenger's biggest weakness is that it's not available in FWD. I would own one right now if it did.

The current 300 line is 5 years old. It's the wrong platform to build a car on going forward into the next decade.

If Chrysler had any brains, they'd bring back the LH platform. I'm sure they still have all the designs. The LH platform was very flexible. They can build large and midsize cars on it. They can (but they never did) build RWD on it.

If ever there was a time to produce the concept car (300N) based on the car shown at the Detroit auto show in 2000, this is the time:

Chrysler could not produce these fast enough. Chrysler needs a mid-size hit in the USA. The Mexican-made Fiat micro-cars will not turn Chrysler around.

Don't worry. You won't see a Fiat engine going into an LX chasis.

If a Fiat engine is put into an LX car, it will be used as the power window motors, or maybe the windshield wiper motor.

Chrysler's engines have always been one of their strong points.

All I know about Fiat cars is two I rented in the UK were definitely not built for my leg and body length. Fiat has been fitting the Italian body, they may fit many Asians, but not people of my body size. BTW I'm only 5'-11".

I couldn't agree more with you MoPar Man.

Back in 2003 at our local auto show there was shock on a local salesman's face when on seeing the 300 prototype I said: "No FWD, I no buy it! Actually since seeing many 300's on the street I wouldn't buy one if it was FWD. The dam car is just too boxy and ugly for me and after renting one for two weeks, it's visibility is too sub standard for me.

Unfortunately for Chrysler many mid sized car buyers felt the same as me.

What I'm reading is that Fiat will bring some small CARS, not necessarily engines.

Chrysler is in outstandingly good shape, engine-wise.

The "World Engine" 4-cylinder currently used in the Caliber/Compass/Patriot is performing well, and showing significantly better efficiency than the engine it replaces, even in a marginally crappy "small" car (see below).

The new V6 family (first called "Phoenix," now something else) is very promising, light, efficient, and cheaper to produce than even GM's cheapest v6 family, plus has VVT and a lot more other high-tech than the GM v6.

The V8s are doing great.

What's missing are desirable small cars. The Caliber is fraught with a wretechedly cheap interior and a gooey CVT that no one likes. Plus its not exactly "small" compared to offerings like the Fit and Yaris.

True, the Calibers interior is kinda cheap but then so is the Matrix, Vibe, Mazda 3 and others in its class. I looked at them all before buying my Caliber. I now have a Caliber SRT4. Far more comfortable to sit in than the Speed3 and far more reliable than it or the Vibe/Matrix. The first year the Caliber came out Dodge had to go from 1 to 3 shifts at the plant and still could not keep up with demand. Read the Caliber forums and you'll find very high owner satisfaction. I loved my 2007 SXT and really love my new SRT4.

The Caliber isn't supposed to compete with the micro cars like the Aveo, Fit and Yaris. Different market. Like I said, its closest competition is the Matrix and Mazda 3. I don't care for either.

Isn't that essentially what Steve conceded? Actually, he's more on target than are you...he compares size. You infer a marketing intention.

In 2007, my wife and I were looking for a replacement for our PT Cruiser Convertible and looked at the Fit, it didn't "fit" us, it was to tinny, rode harsh and the seats were uncomfortable, too low and too hard. We went to the Dodge dealer and saw a Caliber and bought it, chair high seats, the 2.0/CVT was super smooth, I don't know what you mean by gooey. The interior looks are OK, we personally like a simple, easy to clean interior. We also like the hatchback and the room it provides. We are getting 30-31 around town and we don't feel "squished" in like the mini-cars that you mentioned. The car reminds me of my 1986 Dodge Lancer hatchback, a great little car that gave me years of service.

I replied to Steve with the same response. My wife and I love our

2007 Caliber, great comfort, room, mileage. We also looked at the Matrix, Vibe, Fit and all the interiors are equal. Some people complain about "cheap interiors" on American cars, but will accept them on foreign cars! The CVT transmission is great, the 2.0 engine gives us great mileage, 30-31 around town, and the hatchback is a blessing for loading groceries and stuff. I think too many people read the auto mags that decry cars like the Caliber as "boring, unexciting cars", well, that is what most people drive, we don't all drive exotic sports cars, we have families and need practical cars, that is all subjective. If I want excitement, I will drive my 1941 Chrysler Windsor to car show and get waves and honks from people who see it on the highway.

i owned a x- 1/9 by fiat. the engine was a detuned formual 4-cyclinder engine that ran like crazy. That was a great car. My problem with fiat is that they do make tiny cars, which for us linebackers can be tough to get into.

I'm actually REALLY glad to hear that. I've been hearing a lot more bad than good, and haven't yet managed to get one as a rental myself (although rentals are notoriously low-end.) I've ridden in a couple of Calibers rented by coworkers on trips, and I have to say that the interior just didn't compare to similarly low-end GM products, which was a shock.

You're an unusual case... I've NEVER heard anyone claim they like this particular CVT implementation before. Many will say "its OK," but you're the only one whom I've ever seen refer to it positively. Maybe its the SRT-4 implementation that's different.

I think too many people

I agree with you for the most part. People over-criticize cheap plastics in domestic cars, but there's NEVER been a Honda that wasn't filled with acres and acres of the smelliest, cheapest, grey or tan plastic and vinyl known to man.

On the other hand, I stand my my observation of the Caliber vs. current GM and Ford interiors. Actually if I had any gripe with all the modern Chrysler interiors, its that they're very stark. Exceptions are the PT Cruiser (designed before the age of Teutonic harshness in Chrysler interiors) and the Challenger (which is at least somewhat jazzed up from the Magnum/Charger simplicity, but still falls short of what a Challenger should be on the inside.)

And I wasn't criticizing the Caliber for its size, I was just pointing out that the very small car is a hole in the current lineup. The Caliber is at the smallest a compact, not a subcompact.

Thanks, my wife and I got the Caliber late in model year, August of

2007, and we were impressed by the room and utility of the car, along with I always prefer upright grills, defined hoods/fenders, and what "appears" to be the old style round headlights. I guess that is why I love my restored 1941 Chrysler Windsor 4 Door sedan!

Steve, I think that is correct, that the SRT-4 version is "geared" to be much different than the SXT version, which is what we have. I have read on the allpar.com site that JATCO, which makes the transmission for the Caliber and the Nissan Murano has been having no problems with the unit, people seem to really like the reliability of the transmission, maybe this will be the new "TorqueFlite" of the 21st century

Steve, THANK YOU for saying that about Honda/Toyota, etc. When the "cheap plastic" is rampant in those cars, the auto testers seem to overlook that, what, is Japanese plastic more esthetic than American plastic? If I want unique interiors, then I just drive my 41 Windsor with wool seats, and beautiful two-tone wool door panels, and the most Art Deco bakelite dash and accents you could ever see!

Right, the Caliber is the new Dodge Dart in size. It also seems to be the same size as my 86 Dodge Lancer, which was a great car.

wrote in news:H4nF2fc6WnjP-pn2-9eidjeBNUd0D@localhost:

I think you can only get the stick on the STR4. At least that's what I was told by one of the local Dodge dealers.

I agree, Chrysler interiors have really gone downhill the last several years. This Allpar article on the T&C Van implies Daimler was at fault here.

Now that Daimler is gone, there are very few cheap-feeling materials or > plastics in the minivan. There have been some quiet upgrades, which help to > spiff up the interior and improve its feel; that¹s especially true for the > Dodge version, which has been upgraded with gauges more like the Chrysler. In > our 2008 model, a few materials, like the top lid for the center console, > felt cheap; those issues were resolved in our 2009.

lets not forget they own Ferrari and Maserati as well....maybe one reason they are willing to keep the Viper around

So Ferrari is a toy car?

Don't need to sell many to make pots of money.

DAS

To send an e-mail directly replace "spam" with "schmetterling"

damn I'm sick of looking at them.........and Mercedes and lambos too

Do you live in London or LA?

:-) DAS

To send an e-mail directly replace "spam" with "schmetterling"

nope and nope

didnt see many up in the mountains either unless you were near rich folks or people with more credit than brains.....but i did see lots of fools buying used land rovers for 50 grand for 4 years old...