My last experience with a mopar product was with a 76 Aspen. The fenders rusted out prematurely and it had rust from day 1. This did instill confidence in a uaw product. How do current products compare to my 76 fiasco? I've been a 2+ decade advocate of Japanese nameplates, but may consider a domestic brand again.
You might want to look elsewhere. The Pacifica is manufactured by a German company.
Good catch. Next on the list!
Aspen vs Pacifica. WOW, That is a big spread. NOT THE SAME BALLPARK, NOT even the same WORLD. You state:
Well, from Canada....
They have changed considerably. My parents had some 70s cars, mostly Fords (Maverick was the worst), and the front fenders in the Maverick rusted out in less than 3 years. The two main problems were insufficiently purified recycled steel and the lack of an inner fender. Both problems have long been rectified.
I currently have three vehicles: 1994 Chevy K1500, 1996 Plymouth Grand Voyager and 2003 Dodge Grand Caravan. The Chevy has no significant rust on the body. I won't say none as I haven't inspected it with a magnifying glass, but none that is readily apparent. The bumper is starting to rust on the right rear where the exhaust gases hit it, but that's it after 10 years of driving in PA and NY where we use lots of road salt in the winter.
The 1996 is likewise nearly rust free. I didn't put mudflaps on it and there are a couple of small rust areas where the paint was chipped off the bottom leading edge of the doors from flying stones (I live on a dirt road and have a long gravel driveway). However, nothing that is significant yet. I'd have the lower half repainted, but it has 141,000 on it and the book value is only $3000 or so. I'm planning to just drive it into the ground with minimal investment. I suspect it won't rust through for at least 3-5 years and by then I'll probably just have it carted off to the boneyard.
I'm not against buying imported cars, but I think people do need to realize that it affects the economy and will affect THEIR job at some point in the future. I think we've started to see the affects during this last recession/recovery and future ones will likely continue the trend. It is hard to exist solely on a service based economy and certainly isn't a good place to be from a defense perspective.
I bought a new Honda once and it was the worst car I ever owned. Dumped it a 90,000 miles after having the top end rebuilt and have never looked back. The icing on the cake for me with Honda was the extremely rude treatment I received from the zone office when I asked them to at least partially stand behind their engine after it self-destructed at 70,000 miles. I'll never own another Honda of any type, car or lawn mower or anything in between.
There is no doubt that Detroit got exceedingly lax and sloppy in the 70s and 80s and the Japanese paid attention to quality as the Koreans are doing now. Detroit learned a painful lesson, but I believe that, by and large, did learn it. All of the quality indicators, except Consumer Reports which just parrots what their readers tell them, indicate that the quality gap between North American and Japan is exceedingly small and Europe and Korea aren't far behind.
Matt
The Pacifica isn't 'imported'. is it?
DAS
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Not according to NAFTA rules it isn't. It just makes a little hop over the Ambassador bridge (or more likely the railroad bridge) from Windsor, ON into Detroit. Built by our good Canadian friends.
--Geoff
Well it precedes NAFTA by many decades. The Auto Pact allowed US manufacturers to import vehicles into Canada without paying duty if they built as many in Canada as they imported.
The auto industry is pretty big in Ontario. In addition to the big three we have Honda(Civics), Toyota (Corollas and soon Lexus ) and CAMI which is the GM Suzuki partnership which builds Metros and Trackers etc.
Its not where its built, its not whether or not its unionized, its a lot fo other factors which determine quality. The GM Oshawa plant builds some of the best of the big three vehicles(Regals/Impalas) with the same union and not far from the Bramalea plant which built my crappy Intrepid. They both buy parts from some of the same parts manufacturers. The design and what parts they choose make the difference.
James Linn
Why would anyone judge American cars, let alone Chrysler, by a 76 Aspen? Well-known over the years as one of the most poorly quality-controlled cars ever built (although with excellent basic engineering- find one that was put together right and it'll run forever).
From what I've read, I'd say quality and reliability of all makes is up since 1976, but the Japanese are still the leaders. While the US makes have generally improved, the Japanese have stayed ahead by also continuing to improve and they set the standard.
If you want to look at reliability of US vs. Japanese makes, as well as any other makes, look at the April issue of Consumer Reports at local library. Or get an online subscription at:
In terms of reliability, the Pacifica is too new to say anything about, IMHO. But I think you'll find it has many more features and capabilities than your Aspen, yet I bet it will also be more reliable and trustworthy.
Try Google.com for more Pacifica comments from web and newsgroups.
Not to my knowledge. I wasn't saying this in respect to the Pacifica, but in respect to the OP's comment about buying Japanese cars. The comment was "I've been a 2+ decade advocate of Japanese nameplates, but may consider a domestic brand again."
Matt
Hardly the gold standard with respect to auto data...
Matt
No car from 1976 can be compared quality wise to anything built in 2003.
How'd the 8 track play in that Aspen, anyway. Or did you just have an FM converter for the AM radio? What was your CB handle?
Like democracy though, "better than anything else."
Back then, I bet you spent a lot of time explaining you meant cars instead of motorcycles. I bet that "H" insignia on your mood ring drew the ladies at the Disco, too!
I bet you were ahead of the curve, and had a Commodore 64 or a TRS-80 at home back then too. Maybe an Apple II? Wasn't Pong exciting!? PacMan was still a few years off.
It's a good thing things have changed a bit since then. I bet it would have been hard to find a place to mount that 102" whip on an early Civic without having to drill into the body. Cell phone antennas are much more convenient today. Why, even if you haven't moved up to a handheld, you probably have a through the glass adhesive antenna. Unheard of at Radio Shack in 1976!
That's an excellent question, Steve, and frankly I said 'troll!' to myself the moment I read the first post.
--Geoff
That's not what it asks. It asks if you had any major problems during the past 12 months. The survey includes cars up to 6 years old.
I find it hard to believe you subscribe to CR.
So are all surveys. The people J D Power contact decide for themselves if they will respond -- in other words, they self-select.
No, you again have misread the charts. As I said, I don't believe you subscribe to CR. You do not know what the survey asks, and you do not know what the charts mean.
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