Quality of Pacifca vs Aspen?

I know. I've subscribed to CR for about two decades. This is the problem. Asking people their recollection of things that have happened over a five year period is fraught with peril. And it is a self-selected sample, which violates almost every tenet of statistical sampling. There are many issues also with the consistency of the presentation of their data as many others have pointed out here recently.

They also said it was based on 7 year-old technology. So much for the "new" Crossfire. And they ranked it 12th in a list of 14 cars in the class.

Fuel economy was about the only bright spot in the test. And the 350Z tied the Crossfire in this category while having FAR better performance. The Nissan posted 0-60 in 5.4s vs 7.2 for the Crossfire. The Crossfire was pretty pathetic if the CR test can be trusted ... which I'm not sure it can.

Matt

Matt

I have a Chrysler 300M and a Toyota Avalon. Both my wife and I prefer the CHrysler. The Avalon is a rattle box and many features work poorly (rear defroster, auto climate control, heated seats). It is quieter than the 300M but that just makes it easiler to hear the rattles and clicks. Consumer Reports says it is a bit more reliable but the American cars have improved a lot since the old days so in my opinion the import isn't worth the extra bucks. I've owened 3 Chryslers, 3 Toyotas, 2 Fords, 1 GM, 2 Subaru since 1975. The 300M is the best car I've owned by far.

Give us all a break. Just because a bunch of countries have a history of ultra-corruption that prevents a middle class from building up, that doesn't mean the American worker is at fault for getting a decent wage. You want to look at people being paid too much then look at a few CEO's.

BALLPARK,

Well, I am trying to make the point that deciding what's 'imported' or not is a pointless exercise. This topic is a perennial here.

Consumers buy the cars they like, whether on looks, price, quality (perceived or otherwise) etc. If the government slaps on barriers (e.g. the imported-steel tariffs in the USA), the 'shape' of the demand may shift a bit, but you CAN'T STOP THE TIDE (to mix my metaphors).

DAS

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Southern Ontario, eh. I thought that's part of the US anyway...

;-) DAS

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And we find it hard to believe you're a university professor, much less a chemist, but we digress.

--Geoff

Umm, no. All surveys are NOT self selected. (Learn some science here) A scientific (statistical science) survey is sent to random members of the population being sampled. If you care about owner experiences with a particular car make & model, than owners of that make & model are your population. A scientific survey would pick owners of that make & model at random and survey those random owners (the SAMPLE). The size of the sample vs the population determines the accuracy of the represenation. The number of surveys sent out to each sample is known, and the number of returned survey is known too. CR sends surveys to all of their magazine subscribers, and self select ONLY their magazine subscribers which is not a representative sample of any particular make and model . They self select on the basis of their magazine purchasing. There is no random sampling, in fact quite the opposite. You can call CR whatever you want, but its car reliability reports are not based on any random sampling, which is what statistical science is based upon. Furthermore, a scientific survey will also report its margin of error, at a minimum.

Sometimes difficult, but I don't think pointless.

What tide? The exportation of manufacturing from the US? Increased market share of imports? What?

Matt

And I didn't have to read Lloyd's drivel until you responded to it. :-) Filters are a wonderful thing. Since I kill-filed Lloyd, I've got back to reading more rationaly and meaningful posts.

Trying to educate Lloyd is like trying to teach a pig to dance.

Matt

You know, I read somewhere that the worst car on the market today is better than the best car built in 1985. So, does that mean that a 2004 KIA is better than a 1985 Honda Accord? Just wondering Bill

Didn't Consumer Reports just rate the Buick Regal as the most reliable car on sale in the US market? Bill

I can't speak for an 85 Accord, but my 84 was a piece of crap and any car made in 2004 would be better than that. I drove a Kia Sorento on vacation in FL last winter and it was a nice driving vehicle. The only complaint was horrific fuel mileage ... maybe 16 MPG on the highway.

Matt

This is obvious horseshit. All it shows is the seemy underbelly of freedom of the press.

DS

And those people decide for themselves whether to participate, right? So they're selecting themselves. Or do you think someone holds a gun to their heads and makes them respond?

In this case I was thinking of the 'tide' of cars that US-based buyers prefer to buy. Some may care if the vehicle is assembled in Auburn Hills or Tokyo, most probably not. And beyond assembly, who looks at the supplier of the components? And who is/are the manufacturers of these components? And if it's Siemens, are all the elements made in Germany or maybe in Japan (Fujitsu is a business partner)? Or maybe they have a factory in Malaysia? And are the subelements sourced from Taiwan?

And design? Italy, California? And who are the designers? Americans based in America? Americans based on Germany? British nationals in the USA? And who are the decision makers who decide which design is adopted? Where are they based?

And who are the shareholders of the various companies involved, right from the final assembly corporation (such as Honda) to the filament producer of the headlamp?

Let me give an example from my own business. We had a problem with an electronic component with a machine we supplied to a client in Guangzhou (southern China). The component had been bought via the Canadian rep of what seems to be an 'arch-American' company. (Canada is where this machine was/is made.). The tech problem occurred during the SARS outbreak and, because of a corporate edict, the Shanghai-based technician from that component supplier was not allowed to travel. But where was this committee that decided this? In Japan, as the component supplier was owned by a big Japanese company. So it's a Japanese company, right? They're still big in electronics, right? Wrong. The ultimate owner is a giant French corporation..

Oh, and the faulty component itself was made in a south-east Asian factory. Although we/our suppliuer were hit by this manufacturing fault, our losses were relatively minor. This factory had been supplying faulty components for months (unwittingly, we assume) to many of the world's big computer suppliers such as Hewlett-Packard, who was leading a class-action suit against them...

I think you get my drift...

DAS

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Is that as hard as getting one to fly?

DAS

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I can get a pig to fly using a cannon with a suitable bore diameter. Not sure how you'd get one to dance.

:-)

--Geoff

No, but there is some good news about the Regal. CR's web site

"The aging Regal is an acceptable car, but nothing special compared with its newer, more advanced competition. Drawbacks include ungainly handling (the optional Gran Touring suspension improves that somewhat) and front seats that become less comfortable the longer you sit in them. On the plus side, the Regal rides well at lower speeds, has a quiet cabin, and features a smooth-shifting transmission. It's been a very reliable vehicle. The standard 3.8-liter V6 puts out 200 hp. A

According to CR reader surveys, the recent Regals are competitive with the Camry for reliability, but 1996-1999 Camrys are more reliable than Regals of the same vintage. IMHO this suggests that the Regal won't age as well as the Camry.

Camry beats Regal for owner satisfaction and depreciation, unfortunately for Regal.

Suggest you go to library and read April and later issues of CR for more detailed info on strengths and weaknesses of the Regal, or else see the web site. (You may need an online subscription to see all info.)

No. If you kick a pig hard enough, it'll fly away. Lloyd won't.

:-p