questions on financing & dealer negotiation

A 2004 chrysler pacifica (28k miles, awd) is listed at $20,990 at my local chrysler dealer on Long Island (NY). This looks like a reasonable
price (and my online research confirms it is well within standard book values), but is it true that dealers can normally be talked into shaving a few dollars off the sticker price? I intend to trade in my 1994 Ford Explorer (eddie bauer) which has clocked in 102k miles. Is $19k a realistic demand? How do I spin it?
Initially I have to finance 100% of this but will pay off the full balance by March. Will they slam a bank fee? Do penalties apply for paying off the loan early? Besides sales tax, what other hidden costs are possible?
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Realistic? You have to realize the dealer is going to make a profit on the vehicle. The used vehicle has mark up value in it. By how much, it depends on what it was bought for at an Auction, Or what it was traded in for? A dealer will low ball you on yopur trade to maximize his profit.
They big variable is vehicle condition? What condition is your vehicle in? Is it going to need tires, windshield, etc. The dealer will tally this up and subtract it off you trade-in value.
How do I spin it?

You have to take that up with your bank! And ask the F&I manager these questions. Most dealers deal pretty much with all banks and finance companies, so You would have to work out what exatly you are working on. The best choise is to work with your bank or Credit Union before hand and then look at the finance options with the dealer.
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Any car can be talked down from the sticker price, except at perhaps a Saturn dealership, as the sticker price is a fictional number. There are ways you can translate the sticker into the actual dollar price the dealer paid for it, unfortunately you have to know what the sales volume of the dealership is in order to get some of the figures to plug into the formulas. And sticker price on a used vehicle is a totally different thing, as used vehicle costs are all over the map.
Kelly Blue Book will give you the dollar amount that a dealer will credit on a trade in. That can give you somewhat of an idea what their actual cash outlay for the car was if it was traded in by someone buying a new car, for example. However, keep in mind that this is a pretty premium trade in for a dealer, it is a vehicle that they can definitely turn. It is quite possible as well that someone got in over their head on this car and lost a job or couldn't make payments or whatever, and took a terrible beating in which case this is a real moneymaker for the dealer. Dealers really aren't that hot to get rid of last years models until January or thereabouts, keep in mind now is the season for new car sales and there's going to be a lot of people coming into the dealership who will fail to be able to swing a payment for a new car, and a year-old 28k vehicle is young enough that they might go for it as a consolation car.
Pretty much, ask as low as you dare and keep talking. If you have financing lined up and your bank could write them a check right then and there that might help since they can use the cash right now, but the finance rate might be worse than what they offer to finance this car with. If it's stickered at 21K I'd very casually ask if they would take $17K for it, and see if they laugh. If they don't and start get interested in talking, that will tell you that they probably don't expect to sell it that quickly so you might have wiggle room. Above all don't act desperately interested. It's also good to take the salespersons card and come back a couple days later.
Keep in mind that sticker prices are set with the assumption the purchaser will finance (or lease) and are marked up in order to pay for the low, low interest rates often offered.

Your better off selling that through the newspaper. That is one car that the dealer does not want. Seriously! A new car dealer is going to probably send that one straight to the auctions. To see what I mean, call around to the new car dealerships and ask what the cheapest used Explorer they have costs, and when they tell you then ask how old it is and what it's mileage is, and I would bet you won't find anything older than 1996.
A friend of mine has an Explorer and he was looking to sell it a few months ago, due to the rising price of gas, and he finally gave it up as all the dealers he went to had at least 6-7 of them on the lots, and they were NOT moving.
If your Explorer has manual transmission that's entirely different, but if it's an auto-trans job your going to get screwed trading it in. Your also going to get screwed private sale, but your going to get screwed less private sale.
In my opinion, you should also NOT mention the Explorer trade in until AFTER you have settled on a price for the Pacifica. They will ask you in advance of negotiations if you have a trade-in, answer negative. Once negotiations are over, say that the new vehicle cost more than you expected and you realize your going to have to trade in your old car to help reduce the price, and then ask what they will give you for it.

Talk to your bank before going to the dealership and ask these questions.
Ted
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tito wrote: "A 2004 chrysler pacifica (28k miles, awd) is listed at $20,990 at my local chrysler dealer on Long Island (NY). This looks like a reasonable price (and my online research confirms it is well within standard book values), but is it true that dealers can normally be talked into shaving a few dollars off the sticker price?"
On a new car take sticker minus roughly 4000 dollars and that is what they can play with unless it is something on teh low end like a Neon. Dealers sometime sell trade in but wholesale them more then sell. Used cars have a big markup. Most of the cars the dealer is selling used are auction cars. They call them program cars.
They get program cars from these auctions. The auctions get their cars from bank repo, rental agencies and dealer loaner cars.
Sarge
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thanks for the valuable feedback. I ended up buying a 2004 pacifica (touring awd, 18k miles) for $18,500 - Sticker price was listed at $22k, and they lowered to 18.5k, which included the explorer trade in. Not bad considering the explorer was worth $500-1000 at best
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spend 20 k on that used vehicle and u are getting it in the ass look far a used car dealer then make up your mind the dam near are giving them cars away new tito wrote:

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