Re: How many jobs depend on the Detroit Three?

Emergency room treatment and "health care" are not synonymous.

I was refused sleep clinic treatment under US insurance, even though the doctor said it was potentially life threatening.

I got not only the clinic evaluation but corrective treatment in Europe under our universal care.

Insurance companies often have a policy of refusing the first claim for ANYTHING.

Here in the USA, doctors make a lot of money, lawyers perhaps make more, and the medications are subject to no price controls at all.

We do not have an ideal -nor even a reasonable- health care system in the USA for a lot of people.

More than you think. Many of the ER users are not ther for emergency treatment, but for common ailments that a family doctor or clinic should be attending to. This is far from being efficient, but many people with no insurance do get some treatment. We can get into the whole discussion about self responsibility also, but that as another tangent.

You have a crappy insurance comapny. Mine will do it, no problem. My wife had a sleep test done, my doctor wants me to have it also. No charge, covered in our plan.

You are correct - it was Tim.

I have had this happen with a number of insurance companies. The companies are shit, but it is largely because Texas laws allow them to be shit.

And when the Republicans in Congress passed the Medicare prescription drug law, they protected their friends in the pharmaceutical industry by expressly forbidding negotiating for low drug costs. Thanks, fellows!

Ever notice the proponents of government healthcare ALWAYS refer to "X" number of people without health INSURANCE in the US? One should take note they do not say no health COVERAGE.

One reason some people chose not to buy healthcare and another is, millions of those without health INSURANCE in the US, get FREE healthcare in the US through Medicaid and the Hill-Burton Act. Like global warming it is more politics to win votes than fact.

Do you really want to pay more for everything you buy like $8 gas, to get the second rate "free" coverage provided by the government? I know I don't

Likes like you even missed the never end a sentence with a preposition rule, and a few others, in seventy grade, as well. ;)

In what country?

In the US, if you're life is not at risk, then an ER doesn't have to treat you - or they'll just make you wait for hours in the waiting room if they think, or they know, that you don't have insurance coverage.

I made a statement that insurers look for ways to deny claims and I stand by it. It is not a lie at all.

(1) I was referring to what Lloyd had said (Lloyd wrote: "And the costs associated with having for-profit insurers looking for ways to deny claims." (2) I said it was a *half truth*, not an outright lie per-se, to point that out in this discussion because "gov't-run plan not only looks for ways to deny claims, but dictates such without recourse". To acknowledge one and deny the other is a half-truth (dishonest).

I never said it was a lie - just a dishonest half-truth.

NOT TRUE. US law requires that an emergency room provide treatment for life threatening or potentially life threatening items regardless of ability to pay in any form.

And if you walk into ANY emergency room any time of day you will find LOT'S of people there for crap that isn't close to an emergency. Bang your shin and get a bruise, head to the ER, eat too much and get sick, head to the ER. Have medicare or medicaid and feel like your ill, hit the ER. Happens ALL the time. It is the primary reason why hospitals and insurance are so damn expensive. Kid gets a sniffle, head to the hospital, kid has a minor fever, head to the ER.

How about this one, if you have an appointment and have no way to the hospital, call an ambulance and say your feeling sick. ZOOM, your taken into the ER.

I get to see this crap daily.

Isin't that what I just said?

And isin't that my second point?

And if you don't have insurance, they'll turn you away (if they don't - then explain why not). And if you do have insurance, you might wait for a few hours to be attended to.

Because a bruise, or a sick stomach, is not a life-threatening condition.

It shouldn't, if ER's are only legally obligated to treat life-threatening conditions without checking to see if the patient is insured.

I doubt that's the reason.

Trivial medical conditions are not expensive to treat.

A heart attack, a broken hip, a car accident, a gun shot or knife wound

- those are expensive.

You won't see that in Canada.

And I can't see how you'd see that in the US if the patient wasn't covered by insurance.

(and the cost of an ambulance ride, whether necessary or not, isin't a cost to the hospital or the ER)

Huge lawsuit payouts for punative dammage awards are essentially extreme taxes on pharma companies. You don't have large punative dammage awards in other countries. Only in the US.

The cost of liability insurance for pharma companies must be factored into the price of the drugs they sell in the US.

The cost of doing business in other countries is cheaper vs the US, so the pharma companies can earn profits in those countries even if they sell their products at a lower price.

I was not discussing a government run plan, simply private insurance carriers. It is neither a half truth nor a lie,and is certainly not dishonest.

This happens routinely here.

Except the discussion here is comparing the two. So we're not interested in the sound of one hand clapping.

Ya, so .... ?

Private insurers -> try to deny claims

Public insurers -> do not even employ claims agents or perform pre-approval for treatments

How's that for "comparing the two" ?

Never had my insurance try to deny a claim, nor has anyone I know. Two of the insurance companies I deal with send me paperwork every 6 months to ask if I have any claims to report, even minor ones.

BULL. My FIL has a hell of a time every year with his SS, Medicaid and the doctors because the drugs that his wife are on are expensive. He has to take her in for evaluations every 6 months to see if they will pay for her treatments.

Really? I have an HMO, they negotiate with hospitals and drug companies to LOWER the prices, I need to pay. Generally abound half the Medicare reimbursement rates. In addition the HMO covers things that are NOT covered by Medicare. I have never been denied coverage for anything by my HMO. The premium I pay, for the extra coverage and lower prices, the HMO provides has been ZERO for the past three years. Where do you get your erroneous opinion, from Jay Leno? ;)

Only for emergency conditions. Not things like non-emergency surgery, dialysis, etc.