Re: Simultaneous Application of Gas and Brake Pedals

You can't always explain what a person does in a panic situation - it's not always a logical though process that stands up to critical analysis after the fact. Forensics specialists can probably give you lots of examples of that. I can very easily picture the non-verbal panic thought process going something like "Damn! I'm pushing as hard as I can, and it's still moving - maybe I'm pushing on the wrong thing, or my foots at an angle - I'll take my foot off and jam it as hard as I can squarely on what I'm pretty sure is the brake pedal!!!" Followed by "Oh S***!! It's even worse now."

Bill Putney (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my adddress with the letter 'x')

I've done significant driving time in a 1985 Chevy 1-ton pickup equipped with hydraulic brake boost. If I'm not mistaken, the same pump that provided power steering also boosted the brakes. It worked -- the pedal feel was different from that of a typical vacuum-boosted brake system, but it worked well. If you depressed the pedal down to the floor while at a stop, you got strange "force feedback" (for the lack of a better term) through the pedal at the end of the travel.

So yeah, 'hydroboost' is a viable alternative to vacuum-boosted power brakes.

--Geoff

I'd have paid extra to get my car without power steering, but that wasn't even an available option. Power steering is great until your engine stalls in the middle of an intersection; then even a wrestler will have trouble avoiding a wreck.

Oh - I'm sorry - I thought we were living in the present. How silly of me to exclude cars from 20 and 30 years ago from the here and now.

No - it was a poorly designed standard package that also included an AMC automatic transmission with no external cooling - fluid needed changing every 20,000 miles - you knew it needed it when the tranny started slipping. They quit making them for a reason.

Bill Putney (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my adddress with the letter 'x')

Especially in situations where you have inadequate vacuum to power the brakes.

Bill Putney (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my adddress with the letter 'x')

Heh heh! You wouldn't say that if you drove the vehicle I'm talking about. Again - picture the size and weight of a Suburban with no power steering. Perhaps the steering gear could have been geared a little lower, but parallel parking that thing was a chore and a half (due to size and lack of power assist both)

Bill Putney (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my adddress with the letter 'x')

I thought that they used TF727s? or was this an earlier model than the ones I'm familiar with? (early 70's)

nate

Feeling slow again, Putney? Your claim that "modern" consumer vehicles "...will be driven by quite a range of ages, mental quickness and physical strength" implies that such was not the case before the "modern" age, and you're wrong.

...which means the original owner didn't order power steering. QED.

Putney's remembering things that never existed. AMC bought their automatics from other makers (GM Hydramatics from the early mid '60s through '71, Chrysler Torqueflites starting in '72).

I agree. If anything it would make it worse (assuming locked brakes vs. ABS stop). If the wheels aren't locked while stopping, all the energy is going into frictional heat between pads and the rotors. If the wheels are locked, there is no energy being released as heat in the brakes, they aren't moving, so it all goes to the tires and the pavement.

This was a '65. I was told at the time that it was an AMC. Don't recall if it was a dealer who told me that or someone else. They must have changed later.

Bill Putney (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my adddress with the letter 'x')

You inferred where I did not imply. I simply made a statement about the modern reality. Anything you read into it beyond that is up to you.

Obviously (I guess that's what "QED" means?).

Bill Putney (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my adddress with the letter 'x')

False - I remember what I was told, and it probably was true.

The same tranny apparently was used in AMC's - possibly with certain AMC-specific options. In either case where does the "never existed" part come in?

Bill Putney (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my adddress with the letter 'x')

I believe AMC *did* use a close relative of the Studebaker Flightomatic (made by Borg-Warner) at the time, and the standard duty version of that tranny was *not* watercooled. The HD version of that would probably have been suitable for use in a truck, but why they would have used the non-watercooled version I don't know. (note that this is all from furry memory, so don't take anything I say as gospel. I also don't know a whole lot about the AMC version of that tranny.)

nate

The part where there was any such a thing as an "AMC automatic transmission".

QED stands for a Latin phrase which translates as

"Which was to be proved."

It's a standard closing remark to mathematical proofs.

My memory is about the same. In the late 60s they were using a Borg-Warner auto. It shifted firmly and early compared to later day automatics. I really liked AMC's drive trains but can't say I was much impressed by the bodies. Lots of vehicles used air cooled ATs back then, I know my Mom's 64 Chevelle used an air cooled powerglide behind a HO 283. When it shifted at WOT the whole car jumped.

-- Elbridge Gerry, of Massachusetts:

"What, sir, is the use of militia? It is to prevent the establishment of a standing army, the bane of liberty. . . Whenever Government means to invade the rights and liberties of the people, they always attempt to destroy the militia, in order to raise a standing army upon its ruins." -- Debate, U.S. House of Representatives, August 17, 1789

Any reasonable person would accept referring to a transmission that was used in AMC vehicles as an AMC transmission. Key word being "reasonable".

Bill Putney (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my adddress with the letter 'x')

Your engine stalls in the middle of an intersection and loss of power steering causes a wreck? Just how likely is that, anyway?