Superbird

I've seen a blue one, but I didn't think it was an original.

I can tell you for a fact that they were available in Orange and White. I've been in a white one still on the dealer showroom, and I've been in an Orange one that was about a year old.

Chris Bailey, but I've never seen him post to usenet.

Nope.

Surely you won't need an expert to prove that wrong. That's just silly.

I don't see it listed, but I could swear a GI buddy I met while stationed at Maxwell AFB AL had one painted "Plum Crazy", sort of a medium purple. That would have been somewhere between 1969-1970. But then it was a long time ago.

Well, "Petty Blue" wasn't officially a mopar color anyway, so NONE of them left the factory that color :-)

But seriously, they were available in the same colors as all the other Mopar B-bodies of the day. I don't know if they actually built examples in ALL the colors (bronze? Doubtful.) but they certainly built them in B5 blue (correctly called "Medium Blue Fire Metallic," but often called "Petty" blue. However its really darker than Petty's trademark blue, which is closer to Chrysler B3 "Corporation" Blue) and many other colors as well. Since they were outrageous cars, they often got some of the "High Impact" muscle car colors like "Tor Red," "Vitamin C Orange," "Lemon Twist," and "Limelight."

For more on them, try

Well gee, then by definition he's _NOT_ a 'resident expert' now is he??

The question was; "Is there a resident expert on the wing cars, specifically the Superbird" Nowhere was it specified that usenet involvement was a criteria or the sole criteria or even a partial criteria.

And, well gee, just because -I- have never seen him post to usenet doesn't mean that he doesn't, it just means that -I- haven't seen it.

In context, "resident" would mean "usenet regular" to any reasonable person reading the post.

A local had a 1969 Charger Daytona in that color.

Larry

: >

: I don't see it listed, but I could swear a GI buddy I met while : stationed at Maxwell AFB AL had one painted "Plum Crazy", sort of a : medium purple. That would have been somewhere between 1969-1970. : But then it was a long time ago.

Thanks to all who replied. I've got the information that I need. I think it's really something that a limited production car that dealers had trouble selling almost 40 years ago can generate the response I got here and in the other NG I posted in. Are you listening Mother Mopar?

Ken

What's the lesson for Mother Mopar? I thought then that they looked silly. I still think they look silly. :)

Bill Putney (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my address with the letter 'x')

And more importantly to Ma Mopar, they were a money losing proposition :-(

Not really, it all depends on how you look at it. I believe any car that was built solely for the purpose of homologation lost money on the showroom floor due to the small number made. But if you look at it from the perspective that by having the car able to compete and most importantly WIN it ended up bringing more people into the showroom who then bought a Charger or even a Valiant instead. Then it was not a losing proposition. "Win on Sunday Sell on Monday" as the adage goes.

I've actually heard that Ford lost money on every Escort that was produced but made it up on the Tauruses and Lincolns when people come in looking and ended up being upsold to a better car with a healthier padded sticker.

Really. With the exception of the batwing and the cow catcher snout, the Superbird was essentially a Plymouth Satellite GTX and the Daytona a Dodge Charger R/T. I don't see how they were any more money losers that the models they were derived from.

Unfortunately true.

Well, the "win on Sunday, sell on Monday" theory has been around a long time and may be true. But then its kinda hard to prove. What isn't hard to prove is that Superbirds sat unsold for months and even years, and were often sold at bargain prices or with their noses and wings bobbed to look like regular Roadrunners (which were a huge money MAKER, by the way).

If the Superbird has any "lesson" for a manufacturer its that from time to time it is necessary to create a performance vehicle that generates a heritage and collector interest, even if it isn't a huge market success. Right now, Mopar has had a good run with the Viper, the Prowler is already collectible, and odds are that the PT cruiser will have a collector niche (although so many were built that it will be more like collecting a Mustang or Roadrunner than a Superbird or Prowler). But only the Viper has a race heritage. Of the American 3, I would say that GM has most completely forgotten that lesson. Who wants to collect a front-drive Malibu? The Corvette is the only collectible performance car they've built in a long, long time, although they had a chance with the GTO and blew it with lame styling.

The Roadrunner (technically the Superbird was based on the Roadrunner, not the GTX) was a HUGE sales success. They couldn't build them fast enough, and they were cheap to build (and buy, and maintain), whereas the 'Birds didn't sell and a fender-bender would set you back the price of a new nose cone- which wasn't exactly sitting on most warehouse shelves. That's the difference. Same for the Charger vs the Daytona. And the Daytona was even more expensive to build because of the extensive, basically hand re-work of the Charger rear window.

"Petty Blue" was a specific color of blue whose formula was locked in Petty Enterprises safe. It was NOT used on any production Chrysler product of that era--period. ONLY on Petty Enterprises race cars.

As for factory-available colors, I believe that all factory B-body colors were available on the Superbirds. Only thing was that they ALL had black vinyl roofs, as I recall. You can go to the Winged Warriors website for possible verification of that fact and the color issue too.

The Superbird was based on the normal Plymouth B-body platform, with the wing items (AND related inner supports under the quarter panels) and the front snout were basically bolt-on items. The front fenders were modified from production stock, though, other than the top "vents" on them (really for tire clearance with the lowered ride height they ran on the track).

One thing you could NOT get on a Superbird was factory a/c. IF you see "a Superbird" with factory a/c option code on the data plate, it's not a real one. Some people did put add-on a/c on the 'Birds and Daytonas, but they didn't come from the factory (or the conversion company that did the Daytonas--Superbirds were done "in house") that way. Something about not enough air flow through the small front grille or something like that?

If you want to see a full gamut of Superbirds, attending the Mopar Nationals (the 2nd weekend in August, every year) will "get you there". Factory correct, not over-restored as we might like to see them, but completely factory-correct in all respects for the Concours level judging they do there.

The Winged Warriors usually had a yearly meet too, I believe.

I have seen the Build Instructions for the Superbirds. I was also involved in a complete "bare body to completion" restoration of a friend's Superbird in 1999-2001. He took it to Mopar Nats (at IRP that year) and it won First Place in its class, getting a victory lap down the race track and back. THAT WAS NEAT!

I always liked the Daytonas better, but the 'Birds were a "cleaner build". The nosecone and such was hung inside the car as it went through the paint booth, so it got the same paint as the rest of the car.

The reason that all Superbirds had vinyl roofs was to cover up the additional body work for the rear window "plug" for the different shape it has compared to stock B-body Plymouths. Some of that body work was pretty rough, as I recall when the cars were still new and running around like regular cars.

So, take one B-body Plymough 2-door hardtop, add one aerodynamic nosecone to the front, some modified front fenders, the wing and inner supports to the rear quarter panels and you haven't really raised the build labor for the vehicle over what it would be otherwise, nor probably the cost. Where any additional cost might have come in would be in the additional items related to the rear window (different glass plus the other items to fit it to the car). They probably had to have a separate sub-assembly line to make that happen. A few unique vinyl top mouldings and probably a little more vinyl top fabric would round things out for additional costs and such.

Many people were somewhat put-off by the additional length of the front end. In the "gas crunch" days, some unsold Superbirds had normal front ends put on them by dealers just to move the cars off the lots. They were definitely a novelty item . . . with big motors that people suspected would guzzle fuel more than they wanted them too back then.

In reality, the Chrysler Engineering papers for the cars noted they had the lowest coefficient of drag of any car built for regular production at that time, and rival many vehicles of modern times too. The "rub" came with the 440 and 426 HEMI motors and performance rear axle ratios, plus basic weight that approached 4000lbs.

There is an excellent book on the Winged Cars, which has been out for several years. It talks about the testing they did at the proving grounds' oval track. How that a regular NASCAR car on that body had a shockwave that nearly blew down the small timing shack, but with the nosecone and wings, the 'Birds were both stable, much faster (over

200mph), drove with much less "drama", and blasted past the timing shack with little more than a breeze. All of that unusual body work "worked" and worked well.

As for the Daytonas, they were assembled at the assembly plant as a normal car, but with special instructions to be shipped to the contractor to do the conversion to a Daytona. Therefore, for those cars to be restored accurately, they should have about three layers of primer, overspray, and undercoating on the undercarriage. The paint on the nosecone would usually be acrylic lacquer rather than acrylic enamel as was on the rest of the car (from the factory). If those extra details are not there (reproduced accurately), it's a points deduction in the judging.

I suspect that if anybody lost money on Superbirds, it was the dealer who had one on the lot (after the feeding frenzy had diminshed). The factory had their costs covered in the price of the car, so they didn't lose anything. With the additional items, they might not have made as much on the Superbird as a normal B-body Plymouth, but they should have still covered their costs to make it happen.

I suspect the costs of research and development of the aerodynamic package would have been costed-out to the NASCAR racing budget as that's what drove that whole situation back then.

So, check out the Winged Warriors website, the Wing Car Book, and such.

Now, what we need to do is to get the youngsters who add those "wings" on the back of their imports to stop calling the result "wing cars"!!!!!!!!!!!!

Enjoy!

C-BODY

I remember seeing an interview with Richard Petty, where he mentions that the original "Petty Blue" was actually house paint, that they used to paint the cars.

---Greg---