CNN says...... Toyota won't help U.S. rivals

Let's see - Chrysler can't make a transmission good for 60K miles, so it seems, and GM still refuses to deal with its gasket nightmares. KIa - well, let me tell you about KIA... I test drove one on a whim. Flimsy as you would expect for a car in this price range, but what really got me was two things. First, the transmission was horrible, even new. Secondly, the engine got horrible mileage. My ancient beater Buick LeSabre I use for work gets the same mileage.

Compare this to a simmilarly priced stripped-down Echo.

All vehicles arent made the same. Not even close, in fact.

J D Powers disagrees. According to their published reports the difference between their top rated vehicle and bottom rated vehicle, two more things gone wrong per thousand sold. Like I said the only difference is a minor degree. They all make good vehicle today. From what we see in our business, servicing thousands of vehicles from different manufactures, the only difference is style and price. They all, on occasions, make some that are not up to their build standard for their price range, that is why they ALL offer a warranty even RR. Everything else is personal opinion and preference ;)

mike hunt

Joseph Oberlander wrote:

They are nearly meaningless as even Daewoo managed to make a decent car for the first 30-90 days.

The rest of us have to live with the things until the payments are at least half over.

People forget that JD Powers is a marketing company ... and that what they market best is themselves!

I really don't care if I need to have one minor problem or four minor problems fixed at the first service visit for a new car. Every new car I have ever bought except for a '96 Cadillac needed at least a few small things corrected early on, including my most recent purchase, a 2003 Honda.

What I and most people care A LOT about are the failure rates after the warranty is over but before I am ready for a new vehicle. JD Powers ratings tell you nothing about the cost of running a vehicle in years 3-10!

John

That may be your opinion, but it does not jive with reality. Any vehicle sold today in the US will easily go way beyond the average three or four years, or 45K to 60K, at which time the average new vehicle buyer in the US replaces their vehicle.

We service courier cars, that accumulate mileage so quickie that the majority are out of warranty in six months or so. Econoboxes from VW, Toyota, Honda, Ford, Hyundai, GM, Chrysler and even Kia. Their is little difference among them in reliability. Some individual vehicles of one brand may go a bit longer on occasion than some individual vehicles of another brand before they need a repair, but the vehicle and the parts for it may cost a lot more as well. Like I said the only real difference among brands is style and price. The rest is merely personal brand preference

mike hunt

Joseph Oberlander wrote:

Actually JD Powers does indeed do that, in other surveys. In any event any buyer who chose a brand, and expect to keep the vehicle for ten years, and not expect to make some repairs is kidding themselves. Seems to me one would be better served considering the availability and cost of the parts that they ALL will need at some point. ;)

mike hunt

John Horner wrote:

Nonsense!

I did this the other day and I advise you (and everyone else) to do the same.

Look at a major newspaper where you live, at the auto classifieds.

Look at the GM and foreign cars. Where I live the cars are organized by manufacturer.

You will notice that at 100,000 miles on the odometer, 150,000 miles, etc etc. the percentage of GM cars is less and less of the overall mix while Hondas and Toyotas (for example) are plentiful.

I've seen several Honda Civics for example with over 200,000 miles. I defy you to find several GM cars in one day's advertising with even

GM cars simply don't last as long, and since GM sells more in volume, they even had "more lines in the water" to accomplish it. The foreign guys do it with less total quantity released into the market.

I wish GM would dominate, I love this country. But the facts can not be ignored.

What has to happen is that the union will simply have to compromise on their medical benefits, both pre and post retirement. It is killing GM to maintain their current agreement, and that money can be plowed into R&D to actually turn out cars people want that aren't going to start falling apart at 50,000 miles.

I also noticed that foreign cars hold their value much better. I was amazed at how expensive a couple years old Honda or Toyota was in comparison to its GM counterpart.

See for yourself.

Frank - on the internet, where even you can be important

I find that the vast majority of older GMs are the ones with the bigger engines in them - the 3.8 and Northstar engines, especially. My siter's is going strong at nearly 180K and my old work-commuter beast is upwards of 160K.

And these aren't young high-mileage cars, either. Mine is 18 years old and hers is 17.

I just sold a 91 Pontiac Transsport yesterday, 215,000 miles, no major rebuilds, original motor, starter, exhaust(stainless). Pretty much just had to replace tires and brakes over the last 14 years.

Your arguement doesn't hold water regarding those rice box cars.

Why should they help?....WW2 ain't over yet like some would have us beleive.

Sure they do, GM has customers..a few left.

GM stock rose several dollars a share today on the NYSE. Hardly an indicator that GM is dying. GM is also paying a dividend for the first quarter, even with a loss. Again hardly an indicator that GM is dying. ;)

mike hunt

Johnny Acti>

I never said there weren't exceptions.

We all know that not everyone who smokes get lung cancer, but we also know it's the chief cause.

Therefore, just because your car lasted 215,000 doesn't negate my argument. As I said, pick up your local paper.

Frank - on the internet, where even you can be important

I totaly agree. I will also continue to by what is most reliable, and economical for me, wich sadly isnt a an american product. I currently own a 2002 Monte Carlo, and a 1994 Accord.