Does your post mean I can post links pertaining GM again?
There were a couple posts stated that my posts were old news and and
supposedly violated the rules of alt.autos.gm.
I have since kill filed those posters!
Do you think that if GM built cars equal in quality to the Japanese, and if
they paid salaries and benefits that are reasonnable, that people would get
a better value for their money and buy their cars?
I was the owner of a 1990 Plymouth Grand Voyager for 13 years.
Twice, it went to the shop for major transmission problems, under warranty.
The transmission went a third time and I had to pay for the repairs. The 4th
time, I said, enough! Sold it!
After only a few years, the paint started to peel on the roof and the hood.
When that happend, I started to notice the same problem on many other
So, I have been fooled, as you say and, although Chrysler may build better
vehicules today, I still will stay away for ever from them, out of
retribution for what it cost me in repairs and maintenance while I owned the
I feel Ford has a chance, with the influx of new ideas from Volvo, Mazda
GM seems to be resisting new design ideas, their bean counters are
simple importing new cars of questionable quality from Asia; such as
Both are stuck with loses on truck type SUVs and plum union contracts.
John, the true measure of Hyundai's success or failure in this program
is not sales or market share. It is profitability or losses at the
bottom of the Income Statement and how it all shakes out on the Balance
Sheet. Have a look at Hyundai's Balance Sheet and Income Statement
John. Years of horrendous Operating Losses. Then let us know your
opinion on how well Hyundai is doing. ;-) You just may find that their
massive Deficit in Retained Earnings suggests that they are insolvent.
(A nice way of saying bankrupt.) And don't be fooled by that big figure
called "Capital Adjustements". Korean G.A.A.P. (Generally Accepted
Accounting Principles) are not at all like U.S. standards. Daewoo
being a case in point. Here's a link to Hyundai's Balance Sheet John.
After reading it, give us a more informed opinion on how wise Hyundai
was with their aggressive warranty. Increased Sales don't mean squat
if you're losing money on every sale!
Yah John, just like it added value to Hyundai. *nudge, nudge. wink,
wink* You may have been saying it for a long time John, but that
doesn't make it true. ;-)
Ah yes, now GM is a real example of a healthy corporation:
" GM reported a loss of $8.6 billion, or $15.13 per share for 2005,
compared to net income of $2.8 billion, or $4.92 per share in the
year-ago period. Revenue was $192.6 billion in 2005, compared to $193.5
billion in 2004."
Yes, I have been saying for a long time that GM should put it's money
where it's mouth is and improve it's warranties. I still maintain that
doing so would make a great deal more sense than does putting thousands
of dollars on cars and selling over 20% of factory output to rental car
GM keeps telling everyone to "trust me, our cars and trucks are much
better made now". Why doesn't GM put it's money where it's mouth is?
If the quality is there, then longer warranties would cost GM next to
nothing. I have yet to hear a solid counter argument to this point.
As far as Hyundai financials, it is almost impossible to separate out
Hyundai's automotive business from the many other pieces of their
business. It is possible, however, to see the rapid sales growth
Hyundai has enjoyed.
GM boosters throwing stones at other company's financial reports is one
of the funniest moves ever. You seem to think that you are better
informed than I am. Enjoy your self-delusions.
GM is that master at losing money on every sale. Around $1000 per
vehicle in 2005 being the most recent example.
Hey Cool Jet, you referenced the wrong company. Hyundai Corp isn't the
Hyundai which makes automobiles. The company you provided a link to
does shipping, natural resources, etc. I realize that you know next to
nothing about the structure of Korean industry, so your mistake can be
understood and forgiven.
By the way, none of the other characteristics you have creatively
imagined about me in your various messages are correct, except that I am
The Asian based automobile companies are kicking GM's butt. That is a
fact you seem to find impossible to accept even though the evidence is
John, you have verified my suspicions that you are quite the dumbass.
Hyundai Corp is indeed the parent of the auto maker. Do your homework.
Send them an email and ask them. ;-) It took you over a day to respond
to my post. Surely, you could have researched your information better
during that time! I was once their corporate banker. ;-)
John, believe me, I have your number and its right on the money. You
are an ill-informed buffoon.
Proof again that you don't know the difference between sales and
profit. Do your homework John. Take a Basic Ecenomics course and learn
how to read a financial statement. Oh right - it's not your style to
deal with factual information. Only idle speculation. lame John. Really
Since the automotive division of Hyundai Corp. makes up about 1% of
total sales of the parent company, I'd say the income statement for
Hyundai Corp. is meaningless for this discussion. Why do you look at
Hyundai Motor's income statement and get back to us. Looks pretty
healthy to me:
$7.60 earnings per share. $1.7 billion net income in 2004 on $27
billion in total sales. Quite a bit better than GM, I'd say.
chrisvillar, take it from a corporate banker, if the ultimate parent of
of any wholly-owned subsidiary is financially unstable, so too is the
wholly-owned subsidiary. Any subsidiary can be made to look profitable
through inter-company pricing and interest-free intercompany
loans/debentures. But the bottom line is that all/any subsidiaries of
an insolvent company are, in essence, also insolvent. Once again, I
would refer you to the conglomerate - Daewoo Corporation. Their story
says it all. They were a very diverse company and the "Motors Division"
was only a small piece of the puzzle. Their bottom line was that the
parent and subsidiaries were all considered insolvent, after removing
the "smoke and mirrors".
Are we talking about financial stability or operating efficiency?
Three or four messages ago you presented the finacials of Hyundai to
support your analysis of the failure of Hyundai Motors, even though the
motor division makes up about 1% of the sales of the parent company.
But now when we drill down to the specific financials for Hyundai
Motors, which doesn't support your analysis, financials are all smoke
Uhhh chrisvillar, I could swear that the comment above your question
says (and I'll quote!) "financially unstable". I trust that answers
your question again! ;-)
*shaking head in disbelief* Uhh chrisvillar, I don't have a braille
copy of my previous post, but I will quote from it once again,
"chrisvillar, take it from a corporate banker, if the ultimate parent
of any wholly-owned subsidiary is financially unstable, so too is the
wholly-owned subsidiary." chrisvillar, that's a pretty straightforward
statement, but let me try getting through to you another way - If the
parent is insolvent, the results for Hyundai Motors mean nothing. Has
the light come on yet chrisvillar? ;-)
chrisvillar, I'm not sure what you're reading, but on Page 34 of the
Report, Total Sales for 2004 are reported at $ 50 Billion U.S., not $
27 Billion and on Page 35, Net (after Tax) Income was reported at $
1.6 Billion U.S., not $ 1.7 Billion U.S.
Earnings per share are reported at $ 7.09 U.S. and $ 7.07 per fully
But the aforementioned results are altogether questionable, when you
read the closing remarks of the auditors, found on Page 32 of the
Financial Report. This is a direct copy:
"Accounting principles and auditing standards and their application in
practice vary among countries. The accompanying financial statements
are not intended to present the financial position, results of
operations and cash flows in accordance with accounting principles and
practices generally accepted in countries other than the Republic of
Korea. In addition, the procedures and practices utilized in the
Republic of Korea to audit such financial statements may differ from
those generally accepted and applied in other countries. Accordingly,
this report and the accompanying financial statements are for use by
those knowledgeable about Korean accounting procedures and auditing
standards and their application in practice."
If those comments don't cause you concern, they should, because Korea
is infamous for their, shall we say, "creative accounting". ;-)
Man, I didn't dive into the 65 pager. I'm just looking at the
non-consolidated statement of income for the year 2004 on the website.
It shows the numbers I quoted above.
Aren't you the same person who started this whole thing by referencing
the financial statements of Hyundai Corp.? Are korean financials, and
financial statements in general, reliable or not? You started this
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