From what I have been reading, but maybe I am reading it wrong but it seems
the real culprit in GMs problems is the union. It seems like the union has
GM by the balls and is holding them hostage. How many jobs do you know where
you get paid for not working when the assembly lines shut down for whatever
reason and your medical care is paid for you 100%? Seems like union workers
have it pretty good for turning some screws. Lets face it these union
contracts are based on working conditions they faced in 1930 when things
were bad for everybody during the depression. But this is the 21st century
where the contracts are way outdated and uneeded. Thats why the Japanese
have faired well in US factories with much less overhead do to NO Unions. So
the question is...who is really doing the damage...GM...or the Unions?
My stand has always been that unions are bringing our economy down. Highly
over paid and underworked. I've been in all sorts of manufacturing
facilities throughout southern Ontario and as soon as you walk in the door
you can tell if it's unionized or not.
Employees are not rewarded for achievement, they are rewarded for how long
they've been f***ing the dog. "No need for me to work my ass off and be
productive, Jimmy does nothing and gets paid the same as me."
In a non-union shop, when your job is done, you find something to do.
Whether it be sweep the floor or help someone else, not take a nap in the
lunch room! The "not my job" mentality is getting companies no where.
No need for them.
I'd say both. GM (as well as Ford and Chrysler) found it very easy to give
the workers more rather than contend with a strike. That was fairly easy
when the sales increased every year and productivity went up along with it.
Times have changed. No company today can afford the contracts of three
decades ago. The phone companies have changed, IBM has changed banks and
insurance companies have changed.
In the 1960's many mechanics had no idea what a metric wrench was and did
and could not work on imported cars. Even the mass produced Volkswagen was
a niche market car in the early years. I'm all for good pay but if the auto
makers want to compete, the unions and companies have to get serious and
help save each other.
That is a part of the problem, and probably the most acute part.
But is certainly isn't the only part.
Management let the unions get them by the cojones.
Management is responsible for the crappy reputation GM and others have for
producing a less than top quality product, and then not backing it up.
Certainly the unions have done a lot of damage historically. Right now,
though, I think GM management is killing itself. The unions could probably
build a car for a reasonable price at reasonable quality, but nobody will
pay for them what they cost. In other words, Toyotas built here in the US
can make money, while GM cars can't. The problem is lack of pricing power.
You know what? That's caused by the product itself.
Why is that? This may not be the #1 reason, but it's interesting: There are
a lot of people who wouldn't even look at a U.S. made car at all. They've
sworn an oath against the U.S. auto makers. If the unions disbanded
tomorrow, this would not change at all. It would make no difference. Is
this built-up effects of the union, or GM management? Both probably. The
reason people will tell you they woudln't consider a US car at all are
1. Crappy products (they must be guilty of this)
2. Previous bad service experience (they're even more guilty of this)
So I think GM management and the union were both involved in producing
crappy cars for many decades. Plus, what everybody forgets, the built-up
sins of the dealer network. Those were some bad sins. Bad people
experiences were caused by the GM dealer network. A lot of people don't
distinguish between local thugs and the multinational corporation. They get
in USENET and post stuff like "I can't believe GM did this to me" and blah
Toyota dealers may be just as crooked, but they haven't had as much time to
make enemies here in the U.S.
Actually many surveys show that Toyota and Honda dealers deliver less
satisfaction than domestic dealers. Part of that may be the "buy it at
our price or the next customer in the door will". A victim of their own
You may be correct, but I havent seen any such surveys. It isnt all about
Lots of people, with me among them, tend to distrust and dislike
At this point, I have only owned American cars (while living in the USA),
large town dealerships as a group have earned a reputation of incompetence
and expense, if not downright dishonesty.
That happened to my wife and I at a local Honda dealer. We were
looking at a one year old CR-V, but their asking price was $250 more
than a brand new one. Their justification was that since you didn't
need to pay for the PDI it was a deal. They were unwilling to
negotiate price, figuring either some other stooge would take it, or
they would ship it down to the US and sell it for even more after
currency exchange (the Canadian dollar was much lower at the time). We
left and will never go back to that dealership.
If I pay your PDI, can I use your car for say, 15,000 miles?
It was not too many years ago many dealers were adding much wanted
accessories like rust proofing, finish coatings and other dealer crap that
would drive the price up $500 over sticker. Another was some advertising
charges. I walked out of a few dealers. Seems that was a big thing in the
mid 80's or so, especially on imports.
Of course they don't have to fight off customers problems as much, with
their higher reliability.
Also Toyota may have been more selective of dealership ownership.
A lady I know recently bought a car at a dealership owned by her
corporation. That dealership has a reputation of talking down to and
intimidating customers, to such an extent that I've left the dealerships
3 times over the years when looking at new cars.
So I asked her if the after sale service at this dealership is OK.
She said NO, and her discount wouldn't get her to buy there again.
With horror I recently saw that this terrible to customers corporation
is now building a large Toyota dealership nearby.
That's one Toyota dealership I'll avoid. >:)
NO, and her discount wouldn't get her to buy there again.
Well, bubba, it isn't just Toyota that has some shitteaux dealers.
I am leery of ALL dealerships, of every manufacturer.
Yokem Toyota in the Shreveport has a sterling reputation. I am sure there
are bad, and good,
in your area.
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