Really? Have you priced out a fuel cell lately? And where do you buy
hydrogen? Or for that matter, a car that burns hydrogen? Of course
you can modify a piston engine to burn hydrogen, but I don't think you
will get a cost advantage and it certainly won't be convenient.
The Honda and Toyota hybrids have been on the road long enough to
prove the doomsayers wrong. Hybrid batteries are very reliable and
it appears that they could easily last the life of the car in many or
most cases. The batteries and other hybrid components have an 8 to 10
year warranty so they are all likely to last the life of the car for
most owners. AFAIK, the warranty is not pro-rated.
Yes, those batteries are expensive as well as being dangerous in an
In spite of the weight hybrids do very well. There are many reasons for
this, and some of the technology can be applied to mild hybrids to get
much of the fuel savings, without having a huge battery.
I live 1km from Ballard, a fuel cell developer.
A few years ago a tanker delivering H to their plant developed a leak
and fire at the hose fitting. The area 0.5km around was shut down for
12+ hrs until it burned off.
Fuel cells need much further development and then there is the high
cost, plus a required refueling network for this dangerous fuel.
IMO the new diesels, developed in Germany will be the next fuel saving
hot vehicle. Over 50% of people in Europe are now buying them.
The 2L VW diesel performs very well in the small mid size cars.
I would have agreed with you in the past, but diesel is selling for $1 a
gallon more than regular right now. At current prices, a gas engine at 40
mpg costs the same in fuel per mile as a diesel at 50 mpg. I don't know if
it has changed in Europe, but gas and diesel were just pennies apart per
liter last year, diesel was 1.16 Euro gas was 1.22 per liter.
Fuel oil cost was exactly the same as diesel too. In milder climates it is
not uncommon for homeowners to buy 5 or 10 gallons at a time at the filling
station as needed.
I agree with you that if diesel is selling for too high premium, using
diesel doesn't make sense.
Here in Canada diesel has recently crept a bit higher than regular
gasoline, but I believe it's more of a supply situation as diesel use is
increasing. In the USA you seem to be facing more variability in fuel
pricing than here in Canada.
For urban driving a properly sized diesel gets about 30% more MPG than
an equivalent performance gasoline engine.
The Jeep Cherokee 2 wd EPA figures are:
Gas 3.7L- 15/20
Gas 5.7L- 13/19
Diesel 3L- 18/23 Performance is close to the gas 5.7L.
Don't forget the size. The Prius is larger than the Corolla; if you
think you'd want something larger that also gets good gas mileage,
that's the Prius. If you think you're stuck with a Corolla-sized car,
you're not. Not necessarily.
IMO they've similar in interior space.
A few months ago we drove to the airport in a Corolla and returned in a
Prius. The Prius did have the advantage of being able to pile our
luggage up to the back window, so you couldn't see out the window even
the tiny bit that is normal.
I would never pile the luggage that high for safety reasons and would
wrap a cargo net around the Prius luggage to avoid it coming forward in
a quick stop.
I have read that the Prius mileage in cold winter weather is similar to
It's a little larger, though it's misleading because the cargo capacity
is higher only if you pile things up so you can't see out the back! It's
still closer to the Corolla in size than the Camry.
92.0 cubic feet: passenger compartment
12.3 cubic feet: cargo
96.2 cubic feet: passenger compartment
16.1 cubic feet: cargo
101.4 cubic feet: passenger compartment
16.7 cubic feet: cargo
But is bigger better? That extra 4 cubic feet of passenger space does
little if it is not in the hip room when you want it. Of if the trunk space
is more in volume but the trunk lid is too small to fit a decent sized
carton through it. .
That's a good point. I find the Corolla to have much more usable room.
It's a lot more cramped than a Corolla. You can carry five people in a
Corolla and not be too uncomfortable, but not in a Prius which is really
good for only two adults and two children. Still, if you're using the
Prius as a commute vehicle, and have a larger family vehicle for trips
with more people, it's fine.
That's correct, the Corolla and Prius are similar, but if you pile
things high in the Prius it has more space for cargo.
I would not do that due to the safety concern of luggage flying forward
in a fast stop.
The Prius has a lot of passenger Cu Ft. forward of the dash, which is
Having been a passenger in both, with two & three others, I suggest
they are similar for practical purposes.
As for the driver the previous Corollas didn't fit me comfortably; I'm
5'-11". A similar height friend of mine who has the previous Corolla
confirms that it wouldn't fit me very well as a driver, his shorter wife
I've not tried the new Corolla for size.
Before you say you cant afford a hybrid, lets take a look at the web site,
base Prius $21,100, base Corolla auto (apples to apples) $17,110, difference
$2,715, City epa for Prius is 48, Corolla 26 Presuming that is the best you
could do in either car (not likely) the Prius would use 250 gallons of gas a
year, the Corolla 461 presuming your 12,000 per year driven....@ lets say
$4.50 a gallon you would save $949 per year/ 2715=2.8 years for break even,
then you would save oh I don't know $1000 a year in gas, not to mention be
driving a MUCH cleaner car and doing your own little part to reduce the use
of fossil fuel.
As for the batteries, Honda has had Hybrids since 96, Toyota about 98 (not
positive) if there were massive battery failures, don't you think there
would be a public outcry by now? why do you think no one really knows what
it would cost to replace them? could it be not many are replaced? If it were
a common item, I can assure you, there would be a price attached to it. By
the way, Brakes last much longer in a Hybrid due to the fact that much of
the forward energy is converted to electricity when stopping.
So, Lets recap, 10 years ownership, Prius, car and fuel only $32,350,
Corolla, car & fuel only $37,855, so, looks like you can't afford to save
I am not a fan of the Prius BTW, I prefer the Honda Civic Hybrid, it, to me
is a far more comfortable car.
: Before you say you cant afford a hybrid, lets take a look at the web site,
: base Prius $21,100, base Corolla auto (apples to apples) $17,110, difference
ONE, the difference between your own numbers is $4000.
TWO, I am not sure if "apples to apples" is as fair a comparison as you
make it sound. Corolla is available in cheaper versions, Prius is not.
A manual CE would not only cost less but also have better mpg.
Maybe on some vehicles. I know a lot of high-mileage Corollas (>200K)
and it's certainly not normal to need a new transmission, at least no
one I know of with a high-mileage Corolla (or Camry, or Accord, or
Civic) has ever needed one.
Where did you get the idea that it was "normal?".
Oops that was a math error, so that drops your savings down to $4,000 in 10
years. Show me the data indicating battery packs fail in great numbers, at
least as much as transmission and engine problems as hybrid cars have been
on the road more than 10 years and some have over 300,000 miles on them.
The other issue, is why would you want a low end car with a manual
transmission, I would not even consider one. It would also have poor resale
value? though not a major factor, but, unless you are going to drive the car
into the ground, it has some bering.
If you are comparing a car with an automatic trans, yes, you need to add
the auto to the other....BTW. I did use the base Corolla for the comparison
but comparing a stripped econo-box to a fairly well equipped car is the same
logic people use when comparing the Honda hybrid to the Civic DX, sorry,
like it or not, the hybrid is on par with the EX not the DX so, though you
may be happy with a low end car, Hybrids are not and therefore the
difference it owed to more than the cost of the hybrid system but the Hybrid
may not be for you.
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