Just a short anecdote here...
I'm not sure what manufacturer introduced "lock up converters," but
Studebaker began using its self designed automatic featuring a lock up
converter for the 1950 model year.
My 1955 President, a hefty 4,200 lb sedan with 259 V8/DG-250 tranny
achieved 21/28 mpg in real time road tests in that era. Not bad for a 4
bbl carb, auto and pretty good performance. My uncle used to really rub
it in to Chevy/Ford owners...
In a lot of ways, we really haven't advanced much farther.
There were a few small models with small engines that were designed
to be thrifty for just about as long as cars were built. It would be
hard to answer your question definitively, because it would depend on
how you defined it. Volkswagen used to boast about the 25 MPG Beetle
(although the heavier, faster, more robust Volvo Amazon would also
average 25). Models like the Nash Rambler (introduced in 1950) and
Plymouth Valiant were designed with fuel economy as a significant
factor. I'm sure that whenever there was a Depression or Recession, or
gas rationing, fuel economy was used as a selling point...
Also, the Prius isn't heavily discounted off of MSRP, while the Corolla
is. There was brief period, after California gave out the maximum number
of carpool lane stickers for hybrids, that Prius street prices fell a
lot, but now with the higher gas prices they're back up.
A good analysis, but real world consumption figures show the Prius lower
than the EPA rating, much lower in cold winter weather.
On the up side for the Prius here in Canada there are Gov. rebates for
low consumption vehicles, which drop the price of the Prius
significantly, the Camry hybrid quite a bit and even the Corolla
My real world consumption figures for my Prius in NJ is a reliable 50+ MPG
in the winter and 52-55 nowadays. Blocking the front grille slats in the
winter keeping the engine warmer goes a long way. So my real world
consumption figures for my Prius in NJ is higher than the EPA rating.
Got a lot of opinions Josh, how about facts, the Prius will NOT run on a
failed battery pack and cabbies have heavy feet, it is part of the
job.....however, don't you see the contradiction in your two statements that
the battery packs fail in three to five years yet they are usesd as high
mileage taxies....of course you don't see that, after all, you have been
told all of these things and after all drove a prius once admittedly
overloaded. Oh well, this is the internet, these are things you have heard
or read so of course they must be true fact.
Ok, I'm biased since I own 3 Corollas (one tho is a 1992 but in great
shape). I won't get into which one is the best because of my bias
but how can you go wrong with any of your choices? Even if you did,
how bad could it be compared to your other choices? I say rather
than beat your brains out, buy the Corolla (is my bias showing yet?)
and enjoy it for 200,000 miles or more.
As others have pointed out, the Prius is larger than a Corolla so the
comparison isn't completely fair. OTOH, a Civic Hybrid costs about
$3000 more than a Civic EX and the 40 to 30 mpg comparison would be
about right fro these two. So it could pay for itself and then some
during the period you expect to own it.
As for your original questions:
Civic LX or EX model is worth considering. LX saves you about $2000
if you don't need a sunroof, alloy wheels or a fancy stereo.
Use Edwards and the manufacturer sites to do your research. Google is
I would shop any place that sells the cars. You can play them against
each other to see who will give you the best price.
It's also fair to point out that there are Federal tax breaks
available to those that buy hybrids. If those tax breaks are still in
existence (and I believe they are), they greatly enhance the economy
of these vehicles.
And by all means, use the fleet manager and the web site of the
dealership. You can usually get better deals this way than by dealing
with the snake on the sales floor...
Joe - Linux User #449481/Ubuntu User #19733
joe at hits - buffalo dot com
It's fine, as long as you sell it before the batteries need to be
replaced. Toyota is very clever with the Prius batteries in the way they
never discharge them very deeply, at least in the U.S. (in other
countries there is a button that allow greater electric range by
allowing the batteries to discharger more). This allows them to claim
that they last a very long time, when in fact they are losing efficiency
from day one. _They_ get to decide when the batteries are worn out. It's
similar to how automakers define "normal" oil consumption to avoid
having to repair oil-burning engines.
You're much better off with a Corolla than a Prius, unless you're
driving huge amounts of miles (then you're better off with one of the VW
TDI vehicles). I recently sold something on craigslist to someone that
drove up in a new TDI. Since they don't sell these in California, I
asked him how he got it, and he said that there's a dealer in Marin
county that brings in slightly used TDIs from Oregon (I think they need
7000 miles on them) then sells them as used cars. Very high mileage and
very good engines. VWs have good longevity, even if they have more
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