Wheels/Snow Tires

I would like to put a set of mounted snows on my '05 Elantra GT using OEM replacement steel wheels. Will these (stock on the non-GT Elantra) steel wheels fit the GT model without any clearance issues? Also, does anyone have a suggestion (other than the dealer) for finding steel wheels for the Elantra - it doesn't appear that TireRack stocks them and I'm not familiar with any other source. I have about 32k on the original Michelins and they would be OK for another season of summer driving, but are not up to winter in northern NY. Thanks.

Reply to
dkortz
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Junk yard.

I'd think twice about those tires though. Are they really that worn? I drive All Season Radials for 60K on a regular basis, all through the seasons, and I live north of Syracuse.

Reply to
Mike Marlow

What brand and model tires are you using? I've never had an all season tire that had acceptable snow traction after 25-35k miles. It seems that one year they are great but 15K more miles and the next winter they completely suck. I fully agree with the concept of dedicated snow tires and rims. IMHO, the cost is is reasonable and you will have much better traction in the winter. I live further south now and do not swap out but I do keep a set of cables/chains in the trunk of my 2003 Elantra just in case. They take about 10 minutes to install. I only use them roughly once or twice a year but well worth the ~$25 that Wal-mart sells them for..

Reply to
nolife

Well, I've had everything from Michelin to Dunlop to PepBoys Futuras on my vehicles. The worst I've ever owned were Generals. I'm in the snow belt north of Syracuse and we get nearly 300" of snow a year. I've not owned a snow tire in decades.

Reply to
Mike Marlow

That doesn't mean that they're not a huge improvement over "all season" crap tires, it just means that you're willing to tolerate having poor traction and take the added risks of driving in winter on inferior tires. The difference in snow/slush performance with dedicated winter tires is night and day.

Reply to
Brian Nystrom

There's no problem at all.

I bought mine through a local tire dealer. He did have some trouble locating them (over two years ago), but they're available. FWIW, I went with Nokian Hakkapelitta 2 tires, size 185/65-15 and have been very happy with them. You could also go with size 175/70-15 for a little better bite through the deep stuff.

They really suck in the winter compared to real snows, even when they're new. I think you'll be very happy with the performance of your snow tires.

Reply to
Brian Nystrom

We've had this discussion before Brian and I believe that if you want snow tires, then by all means, put them on and enjoy. As I have stated in the past, I drive for my business and it is not a matter of "tolerating poor traction, and added risks". If I suffered poor traction, I would not hesitate to employ a better solution. My point always has been, and continues to be that with decades of experience behind me, good All Season radials are plenty sufficient for winter driving.

I have never suffered a loss of control that a car with snow tires didn't, I have never suffered an inability to start, stop or navigate that a car equipped with snows didn't, and I have plowed snow with the grill of my car with nothing more than good ASR tires. Likewise, in an area where we get a lot of snow, the percentage of cars equipped with snow tires is significantly less than those that successfully negotiate winter driving conditions without them.

Reply to
Mike Marlow

Yeah, you keep saying that and I'll keep telling people that there IS a big difference.

How would you know anyway, since you don't even use snow tires? When was the last time you installed a set on your car? Whenever I encounter this type of resistance, it's invariably from someone who doesn't use winter tires.

The fact that most people get by in winter with "all season" junk on their cars doesn't mean that they wouldn't appreciate the difference that dedicated winter tires make. In fact, everyone I've convinced to try real winter tires has been amazed at the difference.

The reason that they're not more popular are obvious:

- Tire manufacturers, car manufacturers and people like you push ASR tires, so most people incorrectly assume that they're actually good for winter conditions.

- Many people are simply too cheap to spring for them.

- Oddly enough, many of the same people will waste thousands of dollars on unnecessary - and in some cases ill handling - AWD and 4WD vehicles when they would be better off with FWD and a set of snow tires (lower initial cost, lower maintenance cost, better fuel mileage, etc). Go figure.

- Many parts of the country don't get enough snow to justify separate winter tires.

By all means, do whatever you want on your own vehicle, but don't expect me to agree with you.

Reply to
Brian Nystrom

You forgot to add "the roads are plowed much better and faster now than they were years ago"

While you both make good points, I've not had a situation personally where a better tire would have made a big difference. Maybe I'm just lucky. If I lived on a more rural road, had a 2000 foot unplowed, rut filled, dirt driveway, then yes, I've have a better winter tire. I live on a hill and pull out of my driveway and make a left turn up the hill. In 25 years, I've never gotten stuck, slid, or did not make it. I did have the traction control kick in a couple of times That 500 feet is usually the worst part of my commute.

Years ago, it was common to drive with snow tires and even chains over them at times. In some parts of the country, it is still needed.

Some people should not drive if a snowflake falls no matter what tires they have. Going to work in the snow one day, I rounded a curve and saw a car that was being towed out from the side where the woman slid off the road. Evidently, it was a gentle slide and no damage was done because on the way home, there she was again, on a different stretch of road where she slid off again. Given that thousands of cars passed that same road all day and only one managed to slide off (twice), you just have to wonder.

Reply to
Edwin Pawlowski

That's certainly your perrogative.

You seem to forget our conversation from this time last year about the same topic. I explained that my best friend uses snows on his car and I've had plenty of first hand direct comparison.

What about the evidence from people who drive in the snow for years with no problems using them? That's not evidence enough for you?

Hold that last line up to a mirror and read it to yourself.

Reply to
Mike Marlow

I'm with you Mike. My Chevy truck came with Goodyear AT tires which are essentially all season tires for a truck. I plowed snow with them and never even had to put my chains on, although a few times I probably should have. When they got worn they didn't work as well as is to be expected. I replaced them with the heaviest lug M&S tires I could find since I plow a long driveway. I expected a dramatic increase in traction. The difference in plowing traction was nothing more than I would have expected from simply having new tires. However the different in noise was dramatic. I never forget that I now have REAL mud and snow tires on as they howl like crazy!

I believe that dedicated snow tires on a car are better in some conditions than all season tires (deep snow, slush and ice), however, they are also worse on wet and dry pavement. Even in northern PA, we have at least 10:1 more winter days where the roads are wet or dry than we do with snow, slush or ice. So the question for me is: Do I want better traction in the conditions that prevail 90% of the time or 10% of the time? This is an easy question for me to answer. :-)

Matt

Reply to
Matt Whiting

Brian, I don't disagree with you here, but as I just wrote in reply to Mike's post "I believe that dedicated snow tires on a car are better in some conditions than all season tires (deep snow, slush and ice), however, they are also worse on wet and dry pavement. Even in northern PA, we have at least 10:1 more winter days where the roads are wet or dry than we do with snow, slush or ice. So the question for me is: Do I want better traction in the conditions that prevail 90% of the time or

10% of the time? This is an easy question for me to answer. :-)"

If I lived in an area where snow, slush and ice prevailed more than 50% of the winter days, then I'd almost certainly buy snow tires. However, where I live the number of days with these conditions is, at best, 10% of my driving days. I therefore optimize for the conditions that prevail most of the time.

Matt

Reply to
Matt Whiting

Mike, 300" of snow per year, Im assumeing you must live in the Redfield/ Tug Hill area. I lived in the Fulton/Mexico area for more years than I care to remember and thats the only places that get that much snow EVERY FREAKIN YEAR !!!!!!!!!!

']['unez

Reply to
']['unez

I got grounded on some remote roads for hours going to a skiing trip in WV last year with my factory supplied Michelin's on my 2003 Elantra. It was a joke, cars going by me left and right while my son and I were attempting to push my wife up the hills and bouncing and sitting on the hood. There was only about 2 inches of snow. Tried everything out of desperation, riding on the edge trying to get traction from the rocks, in the grass, clearing a path with my feet, even tried the traction control which did not help because of the rapid changes caused too much erratic changes causing more problems. A few times the front end would drift too far and slide off the road but we never actually left the road completely. We finally gave up and sat around until and a resort employee on his way to work pulled me with a tow strap the last 3 miles to the resort with his Samuri (4x4 with all season tires oddly enough). Being stuck out in the middle of absolutely nowhere is not a good feeling. I still had at least 4/32 of tread left with about 35k miles on those tires but ruined them tires from the constant spinning (chewed up from at least an hour of trying). The previous year I made it around with no problems where I live but I only have small rolling hills here. I've had one of my 5.0 Mustangs in the snow a few times for one reason or another. It was a joke and the AS tires are just a very small part of that problem. Obviously your luck was much better then mine but I'll keep the chains in my trunk from now on.

Reply to
nolife

The edge of it. Hastings/Parish. I generalize about the area in posts like this because it does represent the typical driving conditions we encounter during the winter. I probably receive somewhat less snow than Redfield in any given storm, but we are not that far off seasonally. I spend alot of time on the road within the Tug Hill area though. The entire Hill averages closer to 300" than 200" most years. The last few sure have not been that heavy though. I know that we do get a lot more than Fulton gets in any given snowfall. It's funny how it goes (as you probably know) - it's like there is a wall where all of a sudden the snow starts and it's like you entered another zone on the planet.

Reply to
Mike Marlow

You would not believe the mountains of snow that I have plowed with nothing more than good ASR's on my truck. Of course, it's 4WD, but then again, it's pushing a lot more load than any passenger car simply driving down the road. I generally keep M&S tires on it but I have used simple ASR's in the past.

I'm surprised you chewed off any amount of tread in that experience. With that little traction - thus little coeffiecient of friction, I would not expect you to wear off tread.

For me the big thing is the tread design. I look for big sipes and channeling outward. Some might call it an aggressive tread. I stay completely away from touring tires and the more contemporary tread designs typical of today's low profile tires.

Reply to
Mike Marlow

That's true. The roads around here (NH) are generally only a mess during and immediately after storms. Cross the border into the People's Republic of Massachusetts and it's a different story. ;-)

That's really not the point. The difference in traction and control in even moderate amounts of snow/slush/ice is substantial. Obviously, it's not mandatory to have winter tires, but they really do help.

The last time I got "stuck" was many years ago and it was during the heaviest storm I've ever seen. Snow was falling at 4" per hour! I got bogged down in ~20" of snow when I pulled off into a side road near my house so I could get out, walk home and clear the driveway. It took me all of five minutes to kick enough snow away from car to get moving again, so I don't know if "stuck" is even the right term.

Yeah, times have changed, though I don't recall ever owning tire chains.

I hear ya! In the past few years I've noticed an increase in the number of cars I see off the side of the road on their roofs. These are cars, mind you, not SUVs as one might expect. In many cases, it's not at all clear how it happened. It seems that as cars get more sophisticated, drivers rely more on technology and less on skill, largely because they're told they can. Unfortunately, that technology often lets them down when they need it most. Then again, some people should just never be given a driver's license at all...

Reply to
Brian Nystrom

There's a big difference between car and truck tires. We're talking cars here, or at least I am.

The difference is not much on dry pavement and the difference on wet pavement depends on the amount of water. The more there is, the less the difference.

That's a good point, but if the 10% of bad conditions causes 90% of the problems...?

Reply to
Brian Nystrom

Yeahbut the real problem in the great state of oblivion is the drivers, not the driving conditions. Volvo's ought to be made illegal...

That's a big part of my position. I could make the very same statement, using just radial tires. Now that we've both said that...

Ugh! I do. For my first car. Back in the days of bias ply tires.

Therein lies what I believe to be the biggest downfall of technology in cars. Not that I am opposed to technology at all, but the effect of certain improvements is often a certain degradation.

Reply to
Mike Marlow

And I just wrote "That's a good point, but if the 10% of bad conditions causes 90% of the problems...?" I agree that much of the time they're not necessary, but that's even more true of AWD and 4WD, yet look at how many people buy vehicles with them. It's ironic that almost all of them would be better off simply with better tires, or even with just checking their tire pressures once in a while. ;-)

Reply to
Brian Nystrom

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