I would like to put a set of mounted snows on my '05 Elantra GT using
OEM replacement steel wheels. Will these (stock on the non-GT Elantra)
steel wheels fit the GT model without any clearance issues? Also, does
anyone have a suggestion (other than the dealer) for finding steel
wheels for the Elantra - it doesn't appear that TireRack stocks them
and I'm not familiar with any other source. I have about 32k on the
original Michelins and they would be OK for another season of summer
driving, but are not up to winter in northern NY. Thanks.
What brand and model tires are you using? I've never had an all season
tire that had acceptable snow traction after 25-35k miles. It seems
that one year they are great but 15K more miles and the next winter they
I fully agree with the concept of dedicated snow tires and rims. IMHO,
the cost is is reasonable and you will have much better traction in the
winter. I live further south now and do not swap out but I do keep a
set of cables/chains in the trunk of my 2003 Elantra just in case. They
take about 10 minutes to install. I only use them roughly once or twice
a year but well worth the ~$25 that Wal-mart sells them for..
Well, I've had everything from Michelin to Dunlop to PepBoys Futuras on my
vehicles. The worst I've ever owned were Generals. I'm in the snow belt
north of Syracuse and we get nearly 300" of snow a year. I've not owned a
snow tire in decades.
That doesn't mean that they're not a huge improvement over "all season"
crap tires, it just means that you're willing to tolerate having poor
traction and take the added risks of driving in winter on inferior
tires. The difference in snow/slush performance with dedicated winter
tires is night and day.
We've had this discussion before Brian and I believe that if you want snow
tires, then by all means, put them on and enjoy. As I have stated in the
past, I drive for my business and it is not a matter of "tolerating poor
traction, and added risks". If I suffered poor traction, I would not
hesitate to employ a better solution. My point always has been, and
continues to be that with decades of experience behind me, good All Season
radials are plenty sufficient for winter driving.
I have never suffered a loss of control that a car with snow tires didn't, I
have never suffered an inability to start, stop or navigate that a car
equipped with snows didn't, and I have plowed snow with the grill of my car
with nothing more than good ASR tires. Likewise, in an area where we get a
lot of snow, the percentage of cars equipped with snow tires is
significantly less than those that successfully negotiate winter driving
conditions without them.
Yeah, you keep saying that and I'll keep telling people that there IS a
How would you know anyway, since you don't even use snow tires? When was
the last time you installed a set on your car? Whenever I encounter this
type of resistance, it's invariably from someone who doesn't use winter
The fact that most people get by in winter with "all season" junk on
their cars doesn't mean that they wouldn't appreciate the difference
that dedicated winter tires make. In fact, everyone I've convinced to
try real winter tires has been amazed at the difference.
The reason that they're not more popular are obvious:
- Tire manufacturers, car manufacturers and people like you push ASR
tires, so most people incorrectly assume that they're actually good for
- Many people are simply too cheap to spring for them.
- Oddly enough, many of the same people will waste thousands of dollars
on unnecessary - and in some cases ill handling - AWD and 4WD vehicles
when they would be better off with FWD and a set of snow tires (lower
initial cost, lower maintenance cost, better fuel mileage, etc). Go figure.
- Many parts of the country don't get enough snow to justify separate
By all means, do whatever you want on your own vehicle, but don't expect
me to agree with you.
You forgot to add "the roads are plowed much better and faster now than they
were years ago"
While you both make good points, I've not had a situation personally where a
better tire would have made a big difference. Maybe I'm just lucky. If I
lived on a more rural road, had a 2000 foot unplowed, rut filled, dirt
driveway, then yes, I've have a better winter tire. I live on a hill and
pull out of my driveway and make a left turn up the hill. In 25 years, I've
never gotten stuck, slid, or did not make it. I did have the traction
control kick in a couple of times That 500 feet is usually the worst part
of my commute.
Years ago, it was common to drive with snow tires and even chains over them
at times. In some parts of the country, it is still needed.
Some people should not drive if a snowflake falls no matter what tires they
have. Going to work in the snow one day, I rounded a curve and saw a car
that was being towed out from the side where the woman slid off the road.
Evidently, it was a gentle slide and no damage was done because on the way
home, there she was again, on a different stretch of road where she slid off
again. Given that thousands of cars passed that same road all day and only
one managed to slide off (twice), you just have to wonder.
That's true. The roads around here (NH) are generally only a mess during
and immediately after storms. Cross the border into the People's
Republic of Massachusetts and it's a different story. ;-)
That's really not the point. The difference in traction and control in
even moderate amounts of snow/slush/ice is substantial. Obviously, it's
not mandatory to have winter tires, but they really do help.
The last time I got "stuck" was many years ago and it was during the
heaviest storm I've ever seen. Snow was falling at 4" per hour! I got
bogged down in ~20" of snow when I pulled off into a side road near my
house so I could get out, walk home and clear the driveway. It took me
all of five minutes to kick enough snow away from car to get moving
again, so I don't know if "stuck" is even the right term.
Yeah, times have changed, though I don't recall ever owning tire chains.
I hear ya! In the past few years I've noticed an increase in the number
of cars I see off the side of the road on their roofs. These are cars,
mind you, not SUVs as one might expect. In many cases, it's not at all
clear how it happened. It seems that as cars get more sophisticated,
drivers rely more on technology and less on skill, largely because
they're told they can. Unfortunately, that technology often lets them
down when they need it most. Then again, some people should just never
be given a driver's license at all...
I'm with you Mike. My Chevy truck came with Goodyear AT tires which are
essentially all season tires for a truck. I plowed snow with them and
never even had to put my chains on, although a few times I probably
should have. When they got worn they didn't work as well as is to be
expected. I replaced them with the heaviest lug M&S tires I could find
since I plow a long driveway. I expected a dramatic increase in
traction. The difference in plowing traction was nothing more than I
would have expected from simply having new tires. However the different
in noise was dramatic. I never forget that I now have REAL mud and snow
tires on as they howl like crazy!
I believe that dedicated snow tires on a car are better in some
conditions than all season tires (deep snow, slush and ice), however,
they are also worse on wet and dry pavement. Even in northern PA, we
have at least 10:1 more winter days where the roads are wet or dry than
we do with snow, slush or ice. So the question for me is: Do I want
better traction in the conditions that prevail 90% of the time or 10% of
the time? This is an easy question for me to answer. :-)
Brian, I don't disagree with you here, but as I just wrote in reply to
Mike's post "I believe that dedicated snow tires on a car are better in
some conditions than all season tires (deep snow, slush and ice),
however, they are also worse on wet and dry pavement. Even in northern
PA, we have at least 10:1 more winter days where the roads are wet or
dry than we do with snow, slush or ice. So the question for me is: Do
I want better traction in the conditions that prevail 90% of the time or
10% of the time? This is an easy question for me to answer. :-)"
If I lived in an area where snow, slush and ice prevailed more than 50%
of the winter days, then I'd almost certainly buy snow tires. However,
where I live the number of days with these conditions is, at best, 10%
of my driving days. I therefore optimize for the conditions that
prevail most of the time.
And I just wrote "That's a good point, but if the 10% of bad conditions
causes 90% of the problems...?" I agree that much of the time they're
not necessary, but that's even more true of AWD and 4WD, yet look at how
many people buy vehicles with them. It's ironic that almost all of them
would be better off simply with better tires, or even with just checking
their tire pressures once in a while. ;-)
Most would be better off slowing down a bit too. I don't have any
statistics, but it seems as though many of the AWD and 4WD drivers think
they can steer and stop in snow the same as they drive all the time. I've
seen many of them by the side of the road. They don't comprehend the
difference between traction to move through deep snow versus traction on
slippery road. Slowing from 75 to 70 just doesn't do it., no matter what
tires you have.
Absolutely! They don't understand that the extra traction that allows
them to accelerate to extra-legal speeds in snow means NOTHING when you
have to corner or stop. Many of the truck-based 4WD systems are actually
worse for cornering and stopping than FWD. Ignorant lemmings.
Baloney. My truck will easily outrun either of my FWD minivan/cars in
the yucky stuff and is much more stable at speed. Why do you think
truck based 4WD systems are worse than FWD? Have you ever owned a 4WD
What speed would that be? Surely, you don't think that any car is as stable
at 70 mph with an inch of snow/slush on the road as it is when dry. That
was my point. What was perfectly safe at 70+ is not very safe when the road
is covered, but some people just don't slow down until they are out of
control. Relatively speaking, you may be right, but not in absolute terms.
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