Jaguar's first diesel

The X-type diesel has now been out a couple of months, and on paper it looks pretty good.
The 128bhp, 2.0TD costs the same as 2.2 V6, it does 0-60 in 9.5 seconds (vs
8.9 for the V6), but gives a euromix economy of 50mpg vs 29mpg.
So, sporty performance (well, I still think any 0-60 time in single figures is sporty!), and outstanding fuel ecnoomy, but does it work in real life? All the reviewers bang on about how quiet it is too, but do they mean "quiet for a diesel"?
Jaguar really needs to get going with diesels, a V6 diesel S-type is coming, any thoughts on a diesel XJ?
A few years ago this would have seemed preposterous, but considering that about 75% of Mercedes cars sold in Europe are diesels, Jaguar had better catch up!
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Oh yes, I can see it now, A XJ sedan, pretty colour, shaking at the stop lights with the radio ariel whipping from side to side, with a load rattling noise of a Massey Furgusson under the bonnet. The lights turn green, the Yugo and Trabrant are off at a startling pace, followed by the Jaguar puffing smoke and almost making it to the second set of lights. Whats that, a truck blowing its horn behind the Jaguar, shame on him, can't he wait until it winds up!! Sheesh, damn trucck drivers in a hurry, haven't they heard of grace, space and a little pace ??? :-)
Ron
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"Ron McGrice" <Newsguy.com> wrote in message

can't
LOL
You better believe it, a Jaguar XJ diesel will be here one day.
Check out:
http://www.audi.co.uk/newcars/specs.jsp?section=/models/a8/a8&modcodeN203L++00
Audi A8, powered by a V8 diesel. 0-60 in 6.7 seconds, max speed 155 (limited).
I once believed as you did too. But then I discovered a modern diesel car while on holiday in Italy. Even with a modest 1.9, 115bhp, in 5th gear it pulled hard enough at 80mph to throw you into the back of your seat.

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On 27 Oct 2003 21:27:03 GMT, Ron McGrice <Newsguy.com> wrote:

(etc.)
You haven't been keeping up with modern developments in things like common rail diesel technology, have you?
You may want to do a little research before you expose your ignorance and embarrass yourself again!
--
Dan Drake

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Mate, I'm not half as embarrased as you will be, it was a joke, son, a joke :-)
I guess you don't know what a Massey Fergusson is?
Let me guess, you would be an American right? NSOH!!
Ron Who knows all about high tech diesels
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Dear Mr. Drake,
Please take humour, he (McGrice) means well. ;-) I posted about diesels earlier.
I must say how I enjoyed his text, for I thought he was talking about my old Mercedes 220D. My 220D found many a steep street which it could not climb from a dead start, and if I *really* needed to climb that hill it was done in the reverse gear (If you live in Portland - Yes it was I!).
At the stoplights punk kids in their Hondas with *huge* mufflers that cost more than their car was worth would taunt me, but they made me laugh. I was ready for this challenge! The light turns green and the Honda has left me behind with a smell of rubber to smell while my Mercedes shifts into 2nd and reaches 20mph. "I am coming punk!" Just then I look to my right and I am in a dead heat with another punk on a go-ped. So I smash the pedal down against the rotten, rusty floorboard to hopefully find that extra rush of speed only to realize that I had pushed the pedal and the rotten metal around it through the floor and saw it bouncing on the road behind me in my rear-view mirror. "Oh well" I though to myself, "I still have the throttle rod to press on". After about an eighth of a mile I start to pull away from the go-ped and I am gaining on the Honda that is waiting at the next light ahead. Just as I approach the intersection the light turns green and there we are, back into the thick of the race! Bang! My Mercedes slams into third gear and I hit 40mph! "I am coming, I am coming!" I said as I watch the Honda race to the next red light ahead. Finally, finally my 220D hits fourth gear and I am slowly approaching 60mph. I hit the next light right on the button and I can hear the Honda scramble to catch me as I pass him by. My engine is really beginning to moan and the car is vibrating horribly and I look down to see that I have never ever reached 70mph before now. "Yeeha" I slam on the brakes pull a right into Wendy's hamburgers to celebrate the occasion. What a car!
I forgot all about the Honda, I laughed about the gas pedal and the hole, but you know what? I won that race, I really did. You see, in the rear-view mirror was that punk kid in his Honda. There really is a God! I bet he does not drive a 220D.
Regards,
Blake
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snipped-for-privacy@pobox.com (DieInterim) wrote in

<snip>

Blake,
My old man still has a 240D, I know exactly what you mean :-) He gets his up to 75 mph on the highway, and backs off for half a mile to wind it up, if he has to pass a truck. I must say, driving an old MB-D is an art.
Ron
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"Ron McGrice" <Newsguy.com> wrote in message

Those old MB-D had about 60 horses, and to pull a 2 ton car to sixty took nearly half a minute!
A world away from the E 320 CDI, with 204 horses, and more importantly 370lb-ft of torque - that is geniune V8 busting muscle!
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Too right!
I also stuffed up on my XJ diesel story. Perkins Diesel was the favourite change over, not the Fergy :-)
In the 60's the perkins was a common swap.
Ron
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I'll bet my bollocks to a barn dance the old perkins go better than the jag deisel, it was a top engine, especially for its time!
Dave W
"Ron McGrice" <Newsguy.com> wrote in message

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Mr. Keating,
Ford struck a deal with Peugeot nearly two years ago to jointly develop diesel engines for use in FORD products by 2005-6. My experience with Peugeot diesels has been fantastic. My 505TD with 13lbs of boost and increased fuel can walk away from many gas engines on the hills. I love it.
My personal diesel ranking -
1. Peugeot 2. Mercedes 3. Isuzu 4. Mitsubishi (Licenced Mercedes design) 5. John Deere ;-)
Add your own if you like!
Cheers,
Blake Dodson
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snipped-for-privacy@pobox.com (DieInterim) wrote in

Blake,
You forgot Citroen, they have one of the smoothest diesels out, which of couse is alias Peugoet.
I had a VW Golf Diesel once, it went like a cut cat and was very economical, but not as good as the turbo model.
I think you guys called them "Rabbit".
Ron
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snipped-for-privacy@NOSPAMPLEASE.ic.ac.uk says...

It doesn't matter how quiet they make them, how powerful they are, how quick they are. They still burn a horrible smelly sticky substance and smoke much more heavily than their petrol equivalents. It doesn't matter what the makers say in their brochures or how they try and convince you otherwise, a diesel will never have the same class as it's petrol equivalent.
What you're saying is perfectly true if you consider a Jaguar just another car and Jaguar just another car manufacturer. What you'll find is that the appeal of an XJ to most people who buy them new, is partly because of their rarity and exclusivity.
No, they're not as rare as a Ferrari, but they are compared to the supposed competition of MB and BMW. These 'rules' that set Jaguar apart don't apply to the little X and abominable, US designed S types, which are just another car. But the XJ is different ball game all together.
The XJ and XK are the epitomy of the true essence of Jaguar and they have the class and heritage an X or S will never achieve.
There is no practical reason to buy a Jaguar XJ, it is a decision purely of the heart. As soon as Jaguar do start to introduce practicalities, it will no longer be a car to aspire to and it will lose everything that makes it such today.
If you judge these cars purely as cars, and expect Jaguar to treat them purely as cars, and campaign for diesels and estates, then you'll get just what you want - just another car. It's going to be a sad day when that happens.
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says...

looks
(vs
figures
life?
"quiet
coming,
that
There are some of us who love Jags and cannot afford the higher end cars. Just today bought an x series 3.0 over a volvo. I never thought that Jag owners were severely so stuck up that the lower priced cars were held in scorn. Paul
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says...

Congratulations on your new purchase - I'm sure you made the right decision to buy an X Type over a Volvo. I do not hold the X Type in scorn at all and think it fantastic for the future survival of Jaguar. Diesels and estates included. In fact I think the X Type estate is a great looking little car.
The point of my response was not to pour scorn on the X and S types but rather to explain why Jaguar should never mess with the XJ. It's a battle I will lose, and I'm not so stupid as to not realise that, because Jaguar, under Ford ownership, care more about profit than exclusivity.
Absolutely they will introduce a diesel XJ, probably even an estate at some point in an attempt to sell more. As soon as they do that they will remove the exclusivity and therefore one of the major reasons they are held in such high regard today. It's because of this very factor, the true heritage the XJ has created over the years that people, like you, love Jaguars to start with. Remove this and a Jaguar is just another car made by just another car maker.
I hope you have many happy thousands of miles motoring.
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cars.
sorry for being an ill tempered jerk. Paul btw took it home and it is amazing. P
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says...

looks
(vs
figures
life?
"quiet
coming,
that
If you are a yank then you have not enjoyed the benefits of ULSD. (ultra low sulphur diesel).

Volkswagen have developed the worlds first 5.0 litre V10 turbo diesel. Anyone who buys that isn't going to be doing it for rational reasons. It may astonish you to know some people actually *prefer* the way diesels drive, with masses of torque at low revs, I know many diesel fans who say they would never go back to petrol as it is such a "weak" fuel!

Well, if you feel that diesels and estates pollute the brand, then frankly, you are a snob. Just as those who felt Mercedes A-class/Vaneo polluted the Merc brand.
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snipped-for-privacy@NOSPAMPLEASE.ic.ac.uk says...

Thank you for spelling that out for me. I'm not a yank. I'm British and proud to be so.

Good for them. However, you overlook one important factor - for every person that buys a new Jaguar XJ Diesel, another loyal customer will walk away for the very same reason. Whether you choose to accept it or not, in the sort of circles NEW Jaguar XJ owners move in, diesels are still thought of as down market. That may be a flawed view of them, I'm not arguing about that, or anyones ability to make a great diesel engine, but it is a fact.

I may be a snob, but it doesn't detract from the perception described above.
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