Cost of 10K oil change? $175 everywhere?

But do they do precisely the same things for their 60K service? e.g. Lexus inlcudes a transmission flush. Toyota inlcudes a drain and fill only; they recommend a flush, and you have to pay more for it if you want it done.

An independent might say the green coolant will do just as well as Toyota's pink coolant, because they don't stock the pink stuff.

Reply to
V
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In my opinion, a good independent will only use OEM Toyota parts. So, the place I take our RX to does include the transmission flush using Type-IV fluid, as well as red Toyota coolant, Denso air/cabin filter, Toyota oil filter, etc.

The one thing I didn't get was a car wash that Lexus offers. But, saving a bit over $450 was worth it.

Reply to
Anonymous

This is not a "Lexus" vs. "Toyota" thing; each dealer is an INDEPENDENT BUSINESSMAN. There is no such thing as "Lexus" or "Toyota" service.

Please notice that each dealership, regardless of its affiliation, sets up its own "service schedules"--which are usually unrelated to what's in the owner's manual, and which are usually directly related to how much money they think they can get you to pay when you come in the door.

The owner's manual is the place to go to figure out what your car needs--not the dealership.

If a Toyota owner's manual specifies a transmission flush, then the owner should be able to go to the dealership service department and ask for that service. The Toyota service manual will specify the procedure.

Are you saying that a Toyota dealership near you refuses to do the service that (a) you ask for, and for which (b) they have the instructions and tools?

Now that I look back at it, I see what you're saying:

Frankly, the Lexus dealer is ripping off its customers. WHAT DOES THE OWNER'S MANUAL SAY? And then what does the service manual say?

I can guarantee that under no circumstances does Toyota recommend or specify a "transmission flush". They recommend a drain and fill--possibly multiple times, if you want to exchange a lot of the fluid. But a flush? No.

They don't recommend it for their Toyota models, and they don't recommend it for their Lexus models.

You were suckered in by the Lexus dealer doing unnecessary (and possibly damaging) work, and assumed that such work is "required" simply because "well, the Lexus dealer said it was".

I have a 94 Lexus. I got it 3+ years ago with 125K on the clock. The previous owner had done a transmission "flush" a few months before I got it, and I ended up getting it with--ready for this?--a ruined transmission. I rebuilt the transmission, and here it is at 176K miles and going strong.

You do the math.

Honda recommends against a flush, and specifies multiple drain/fill iterations to replace much of the fluid if that's your goal. Find out what Toyota recommends on its cars, and you'll find the same.

Your Lexus dealer is ripping you off, and you believed him.

Reply to
Elmo P. Shagnasty

I completely understand/agree with the statement not to flush a transmission if it hasn't been done in a long time; we just did a drain/fill on our 88 Camry and at 320,000 miles, the transmission is still strong. Same thing with our ES300.

However, on the RX family, the transmission fluid sure seems to get stressed, so I did the fluid flush.

Reply to
Anonymous

How do you know it gets "stressed"?

What does the owner's manual say? What does the service manual specify as a procedure for replacing the fluid? Does it specify a "flush" under any circumstances?

Reply to
Elmo P. Shagnasty

Used oil analysis and also the RX forum. Head over to the Lexus RX forum for some light reading on problems with certain model year RX300 transmissions. Regular changes seem to prevent or at least delay the problem.

As for your other question, of course the owner's manual doesn't say anything about a flush or for that matter a change.

In fact, the owner's manual for our 2004 RX330 says "lifetime fluid". But, in this case, Lexus and I have a different version of "lifetime". They view lifetime as long as the transmission lasts; I view lifetime in a much longer sense.

As usual, YMMV.

Reply to
Anonymous

Of course there is, as others here have noted. You pay a premium/more at Lexus, and you get a free car wash :), and I personally got a brand new (less than 300 miles) RX series SUV as a free loaner car when I left my ES 300 there for an oil change sometime ago. And some other subtleties as anyone who has taken their Lexus to a Lexus dealership will know. Not worth the $30 more for a regular oil change than at Toyota, IMHO (maybe they thought I'd sell my ES and buy a new RX?), but why don't you try getting a brand new loaner Toyota Highlander from ANY Toyota dealer when you drop off a 5 year old Camry for an oil change?

You asked for it. Sorry if this sounds like an ad for the Lexus dealership. On page 219 of the 2000 Lexus Owner's Manual (ES 300), it states:

"Lexus technicians are well-trained specialists and are kept up to date with the latest service information through technical bulletins, service tips, and in-dealership training programs. They are well informed about the operation of all the systems on your vehicle.

You can be confident that your Lexus dealer's service department performs the best job to meet the maintenance requirements of your vehicle."

So what does it say in your 94 Lexus owner's manual? :) And how do independent mechanics keep up with all these changes?

I was baited and switched by the Toyota dealership. If "Toyota" doesn't recommend a flush, why did a service writer (presumably trained by Toyota) wearing a Toyota outfit at a Toyota dealership recommend the flush (after service began), especially if, as you claim, would be damaging to my car? And from what I hear, a common transmission fluid change only changes a small percentage of the total transmission fluid.

Reply to
V

On 9 Mar 2007 16:13:23 -0800, "V" graced this newsgroup with:

..well of COURSE it's going to say that. It's good business to promote their dealerships.

..the same way that dealerships do..through Alldata and service bulletins.

..because (a) it makes them a LOT more money and (b) you'll believe anything they tell you.

..that's not true either. About 80% of the fluid is replaced. Most of the time, replacing fluid is all you need to do. Depending on how long it's been since it's last flush, flushing can loosen parts and significantly shorten the life of your transmission.

Dealerships make a LOT of money in their service department. They're hoping you don't argue with with they recommend. Actually, they're banking most of their business on you not argueing what they tell you.

Reply to
Max

The owner's manual has a MAINTENANCE SCHEDULE in it. For maintenance, the owner's manual is the first--and usually last--place one looks. When one goes into a shop and they talk about how the 5000 mile maintenance includes this, that, and the other, and it totals up to $300, all one has to do is look in one's owner's manual and ask for specifically THOSE LISTED services to be done.

The dealership would love for you to take their advice, as an independent businessman, and give them scads of your money. But that doesn't mean the independent businessman dealership speaks for Lexus on those matters. The dealership speaks for himself--period.

So there is no "Lexus service" and there is no "Toyota service". Toyota does not provide service. Shoot, Toyota does not sell cars to individuals. The independent businessman dealership does those things.

As for how does an indy mechanic keep up with all the changes--well, how does anyone in any technical field keep up with changes? I might subscribe to some Microsoft program that gives me training and materials, or I might subscribe to a third-party program that gives me the equivalent. It's no big deal. Indy service places get all kinds of information about Toyotas and Lexuses that are out on the market.

Jesus Christ, man. Grow up. Why did he recommend it? Because it puts money into his pocket, that's why! Did you know that service writers are commissioned salespeople? Paid by the dollars they can talk you into pulling out of your wallet and giving to the service cashier?

Are you sitting here and continuing to tell us that the dealership is ALWAYS looking out for its customers and is ALWAYS specifying exactly and only what the manufacturer puts down in its service manuals???

The dealership is an independent businessman, who wants to make money. If he can convince you that you need new blinker fluid, and get you to pay $25 for it, he will.

I challenge you to show us your dealership service invoices over the last 5 years. We will show you just how much money you threw down the drain because you thought the dealership was looking out for you and was delivering only services that are in the Toyota service manuals.

Did you even READ what I said? A simple trans fluid change does change only a small percentage of the fluid; that's why when a fuller exchange is required, the procedure is multiple iterations of the drain/fill procedure. Drain, fill, drive, drain, fill, drive, drain, fill, drive. You will never exchange all the fluid, but with several cycles you'll refresh it with plenty of fresh fluid.

At no time does Toyota recommend a transmission "flush". Can you show us a Toyota service manual (not Haines or Chilton or Joe-Bob's) that specifies a flush, complete with flushing instructions?

You need to grow up and get a sense of the world around you. It's not a pretty place, and you're on your own. The guy on the other side of the service desk is there to serve himself, not you.

Reply to
Elmo P. Shagnasty

So what does the service manual say when a complete fluid change is required? How do the Toyota engineers want you to do it? Do they specify a flush of any kind? What's their procedure?

I'm sure this is all documented somewhere in the RX forum, right? The same folks who are "sure" that the trans fluid gets "stressed", more so than the trans fluid in the Camry/ES on which the RX station wagon is built.

But certainly the Toyota service manual addresses this, too, right?

Or don't you have a service manual in hand?

Reply to
Elmo P. Shagnasty

In my opinion, when you tout as fact the marketing phrases from the Lexus owners manual, you're just asking to get fragged here...

Reply to
Steve Larson

I'm not touting anything for Lexus, or I would have gone to them to service (60K) my vehicle. Elmo asked for info from my Lexus owner's manual, and I provided a quote.

But frag away! :)

Reply to
V

The Owners Manual is not the Gospel According To Toyota. The Maintenance Schedule there is a general guideline for most vehicles. You would rather trust the pages of that book than a competent mechanic who may have evidence to suggest that coolant has leaked into your engine oil, and some other routine may be required? Or that metallic chunks are floating around in your transmission fluid? Or that the transmission fluid appears badly burnt?

The 3 times drain-fill-drive cycle could end up costing more and still leave more contaminants in the transmission than a flush. And the owner's manual says nothing abouth the sludge/oil-gelling problems occuring in many 1997 - 2001 Toyota vehicles too.

Somewhere out there there are people who second-guess medical doctors the same way, and rely on healthcare phamplets only :) But the mdical community is smart enough to include a disclaimer in their phamplets, referring a patient to their doctor as the final authority for analysis/treatment; somthing the automobile community here passes off as Lexus Marketing Hype in the Lexus owners manual.

Reply to
V

He wasn't talking about a competent mechanic.

He was talking about the service writer at the Lexus dealership, who sold him--without his asking--a service that Toyota doesn't recommend.

I will always take the word of a competent mechanic. That's one reason I buy Hondas; I know two extremely competent Honda mechanics, and I don't have to worry.

Ever been to a Jiffy Lube? They'll tell you ALL KINDS of things.

The same dealership that employs my long-time (20 years) competent mechanics, also employs a shyster mechanic. Why they let him get away with his stuff, I don't know. But he rips people off BIG time. He'll flat-out lie to them.

And the flush will damage your transmission.

Gee, you know more than the Honda engineers who designed the transmission, right?

Reply to
Elmo P. Shagnasty

That is the kind of servicethat will continue to generate $$$ for the dealership for sure. Essentially, offering a service that "will damage your transmission" and then charge the customer to put in a rebuilt unit when they come back.

Reply to
Anonymous

No fragging from me, only discussion. I've been very disappointed in the gap between the Lexus marketing and the real customer experience. I know that others have had great experiences though.

Reply to
Steve Larson

I'm a relatively new Lexus owner (CPO 2005 ES 330). Great car, crappy tranny. YES the service area is VERY nice. YES the service advisors are very nice. BUT my dealer gets $140 for an oil change, tire rotation, and cheap car wash. Oil change= $35.00 Tire rotation= $39.00 Car Wash= $10.00

PRETTY DEALERSHIP, COFFEE AND DONUTS= $56.00 !!!!

For WHAT?? I get a nice service area, AND the coffee and donuts at my old Toyota dealer, with the oil change and tire rotation for LESS THAN $50. And the bigger services??? $1000 for a timing belt?!?!?!?! C'mon.......

Reply to
Matthew

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