Oil Change Opinion

I suspect there has been a lot written on this topic, but the debate in my family has reached fevered pitch and I'm looking to this forum for a
deciding vote. I have a 1999 SAAB 9-3SE. Scheduled maintenance calls for an oil change every 10k miles. I don't live in a high sand/dust/useage area and think that if SAAB says every 10k for a change, that is good for me. I'm getting various opinions including changing every 2k. What is your opinion? Is 10k OK???
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in article snipped-for-privacy@comcast.com, HSB at snipped-for-privacy@myway.com wrote on 03/07/2005 00:09:

I'm not sure of the engine denotation of the SE in your part of the world, but unless it's a turbo then somewhere between 8,000 and 10,000 miles is okay. On a turbo, I would change more frequently. There has been discussion recently that more a more urban use car should be changed more frequently.
I have a C900 turbo and find that my oil is dirty enough to warrant a change about every 3,500 to 4,000 miles. I can tell when it's definitely due for a change when the temperature gauge settles a little higher than the desired one third into the green. I suppose it's a case of changing when the car wants a change :)
Paul
Var tog vδgen vδgen? SAAB : Nothing on earth comes close
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wrote:

Please note that Saab USA in their letter to saab owners upping the sluge-failure warranty to 200,000 miles state 5000 miles..less in congested stop/start conditions.
I use Saab oil and filter every 4000 miles. An engine change is a major expense.
Malcolm
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On 7/3/2005 3:16 AM, Malcolm William Mason wrote:

What engines and years are affected by the sludge warranty?
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an
and
opinion?
It's more dependent on engine hours, if you drive mostly highway and use a quality filter than you should be ok with 10k intervals. If you drive mostly around town or the car has a turbo then change it every 4-5k. It's cheap insurance.
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HSB wrote:

You don't say where you're posting from.
US drivers may be be more likely to use lousy plain mineral oil. That *will* require frequent changing if you love your engine.
If you're using synthetic, the service interval is perfectly fine. I trust you're not a sad bastard who uses the car to do 400 metre trips rather than waliking ? That makes a big difference -esp to the engines with the 'breather problem'..
Graham
btw - stuff posted here suggests that *oil filter* changes on a slightly more regular basis will actually make the oil itself perform better !
Seeing that a filter costs next to nothing.... you may wish to change that at 5km intervals and simply top-up the oil.
Graaham
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Pooh Bear wrote:

...and you know this to be true how?
No, Graham, what you say is total BS. US drivers are *not* more likely to use mineral oil on a car that specifies in the owners manual to use full synthetic. Yes, there are bonehead penny pinchers on both sides of the Atlantic that may try to get by on the cheap, but please refrain from generalizing about things in the US since you quite obviously don't have any real experience here.

No, once again you are wrong. Wrong as could be. 10,000 miles is only an appropriate change interval if all you ever drive is highway miles. But under stop and go, short trips or any of the other myriad of reasons that would qualify as "severe duty" the change intervals are reduced greatly.
This engine has a small crankcase capacity. Only a bit more than 4 US quarts as I recall. It is cheap insurance to long engine life to change the oil with full synthetic at 5k mile intervals *unless* you are using the car for long highway trips exclusively.

The filter costs ~ 5 bucks and you'll have to replace almost a quart of oil. I can buy Mobil 1 fully synthetic oil for $4 a quart. I would not waste my time and money replacing just the filter and adding new oil to old just to save $12. Do the whole oil change for ~ $21-25 every 5k miles or so and you will never be plagued by engine sludge woes.
-Fred W
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Malt_Hound wrote:

Not just Saab turbos. I still drive a 1982 245 with a turbo. It gets a new Volvo filter and Mobil1 every 5,000 miles. My 1993 C900 turbo gets the same treatment - I want to keep on the road for another 15 years or more.
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wrote:

He tends to do that a lot, I've noticed.
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Malt_Hound wrote:

People posting here for one thing !

So what exactly is " quality motor oil " ?
http://jiffylube.com/AutoServices/srv_SignatureServiceOilChange.aspx?WSCID=1
Are you saying that Jiffy Lube will use synthetic if you bring them a Saab ?

So.... Why is it that there is this constant debate on the topic ? I've not heard a single european poster claim that oil changes above recommended service interval are *needed* when using synthetic oil.
You might care to 'treat' your car to more frequent intervals sure - no trouble with that.

Once again this so-called 'stop-go' thing seems to be a US phenomenon.

God Almighty - US quarts ! We're in the 21st century now. Care to talk litres ?

There's nothing *wrong* with changing oil more frequently if you like. I was interested to see if the idea of regular filter changing had some support. It makes some sense technically. My total cost of a oil and filter change vs filter only is very different to the figures you mention.
Graham
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If you want to do the 10k mile interval you must use a synthetic, like Saab Turbo Oil or Mobil 1 (my personal favorite)
However, there is much popularity of 9-5's and 9-3's coming in with seized motors or other problems relating to oil sludging.
This is wide throughout the auto industry today. Toyota is having even more trouble on their motors, sludging is an automotive black plague of the 21st century.
Why? Likely a mix of under-spec oils, and most importantly, overly optimistic oil change intervals that are only suitable in "perfect conditions". Which don't exist.
What I would do on your 9-5 is change the oil approximately every 7 500miles, to maybe 8 500 tops, and use a synthetic like Mobil 1 or equivalent (though I would NOT use Castrol Syntec).
If I noticed "black" oil, change it immediately.
This should keep your motor trouble free.
However, people that change their oil (even crap oil) at 3 000 miles always have beautiful nice clean engines when the car is junked, usually due to the car rusting away. So it is your choice. How long do you want to have her on the road? More money now, or more money later.

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Oh, 9-3 sorry.
AND most importantly! Change the oil filtre every time you change oil.
And do not use a crap filtre. A FRAM filtre is garbage. Treat them like radioactive waste. Their orange garbage has no reason to be near any piece of internal-combustion engines.
I like Saab OEM filtres, as they look cool. However, I would stick to these filtres, in order of pricing (quality should be more or less equal)
AC/Delco filtres Mann filtres Saab filtres.
I use AC/Delco for the most part, a quality product. Generally, the AC/Delco filtres "Made in England" are the same as the OEM Saab filtres. As well, Mann filtres are made in the same plant. Some AC/Delcos now are coming from the USA, but I wouldn't worry about them.

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What makes you say Fram is a garbage filter? They always had a good reputation and I haven't seen any reports of them being trash.
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Fram filters are well known to be trash, they lack a backflow prevention valve and filter poorly, generally considered the worst filter on the market. Lots of references out there, this is one of the first links I came up with http://www.scuderiaciriani.com/rx7/oil_filter_study /.
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Ok, one link and it doesn't even cover the filters ability to filter out particles. If someone is going to claim a filter is trash, let's see some good numbers instead of 1 person taking them apart.
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A dozen years ago, one of the guys in the Milwaukee Saab Club took a bandsaw to a half-dozen brands of oil filters. The fram most definately did have a backflow prevention valve, at least at that time.

Interesting. So, cost-savings vs. reputation. I guess it pays or they wouldn't have changed.
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I use either Mann or Saab OE "long life" filters these days. Mann seems to compare quite favorable:
http://minimopar.knizefamily.net/oilfilterstudy-german.html
Not sure about the Saab filter.
John
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