RX or BMW X5? Which?

It's a Camry wagon.

Until you've experienced a Lexus, you don't know how nice owning a car can be.

Yes, the RX is based on the Toyota Camry platform. Lexus is made by Toyota.

The RX suspension is kinda harsh IMO, and earlier ones have transmission problems (google RX transmission problems). There are reports that the new 3.5L V6 engine have a problem called "piston slap" probably because of loose production tolerances (no precise piston-cylinder matching), because brand new Lexus on the dealer lots do that too.

I think you'll do much better with the BMW X5. IMO, Lexus is quiet, nicely dolled-up with good attention to interior details, but they lack the advanced engineering you'll find in a BMW. In that respect BMW really gives you more for the money. BTW you have to get a Lexus oil change every 5000 miles instead of 10,000-20,000 miles with true performance cars. So what kind of car is that?

Check out the newer BMW engines (w/ or w/o twin turbos), these begin to use no throttle plates but instead rely on continuously variable valve timing as you step on the accelerator!!

Around $3x,xxx out of a list:

Acura RDX BMW X3 Buick Enclave HUMMER H3 Infiniti EX/FX35 Lincoln MKX Mercury Mountaineer Nissan Murano Volvo XC90

Really? Lexus is affiliated with Toyota? Do you have some kind of inside information, and if so, why haven't you pointed this out to us

I'll ask this as simply and directly as possible, though I'm sure you'll ignore me - which car are you referring to that recommends you change the oil every 20,000 miles?

My wife and I own an '04 RX 330 and a '08 535i. Her RX has been rock solid reliable and will run fine on regular gas. It gets about 16-17mpg in the city, 20 or so on the road.

Someone described the RX's ride as ''harsh'. Compared to the BMW, the ride is soft and compliant.

I've not driven an X5, but I'm sure it's like other BMWs. If so, you have to decide if the Lexus feel, quite different, is to your liking.

One other thing-- if you get your every 5K service done at the Lexus dealer, you'll be spending a LOT. My local Lexus dealer wants well above $200 for all the folderol they do every 5k. Of course you can take it to Jiffy Lube if you want. The free BMW service is a real advantage.

It comes down to this: drive one. If you like it, it'll be a good car for you. If you're a BMW enthusiast, you'll perhaps not enjoy the ride that much.

You DO know that that BMW service isn't "free" at all, don't you?

Sure it is. They do it out of the kindness in their hearts. You don't think they'd build it into the purchase price and then tell people it was free, do you? That would be wrong - something only an immoral Lexus "stealership" would do.

Of course it's not free-- I've paid for it in the price of the car. The fact is, though, that ownership of a Lexus requires a further expense after purchase. BMW does not.

So evaluate the TOTAL COST OF OWNERSHIP.

Jesus. Are people really so dumb as to think that paying up front for something is somehow inherently better than paying for it later?

How is "no further expense after purchase" better in any way?

Of course, you were the one who said that the service was "free", so you obviously got suckered by the marketing game.

Man. What a world. "It's FREE!"

Thank you that was helpful. I thought the RX had a little better gas mileage than that (20's on highway? seems low to me). On my 328i i"m getting 18 around town, and up to 30mpg on straight highway trips. In line 6 cylinder. The x5 is very much heavier and naturally cannot get that kind of gas mileage. Especially the 2007, they went and made them heavier, even. Now with $4.00 gas, I think the consumers are going to demand better mileage. Lexus has to drive like a toyota. Smooth, and cushy, right? the German engineering is very taut. Many people do not like it.

Mostly. Give it a try, see what you think.

Are you saying that there is no advantage to "prepaying" for service in the cost of the car (assuming that the additional cost is equal to the cost of the service)?

Lurfys Maw wrote to Elmo:

Would you rather have the car company be earning the interest on that money, or be earning it yourself?

Correct.

By definition, you're paying for what THEY think needs to be done to properly maintain the car, and you're paying at THEIR rates.

You can have the same work done elsewhere at a much lower cost, for example, while maintaining all warranty coverage.

Also, it's a pure marketing gag--they get to define what "maintenance items" means from a marketing standpoint, then the small print taketh away by saying "this item and that item and those other items are consumables, not maintenance items". So you go there for your "free" oil change at 12,000 miles, and end up spending $100 for wiper blades.

Yes, overall it's a bad deal for the customer--otherwise they wouldn't market it. It's to the customer's advantage to be in control of all costs at all times.

OK, factor that in, too. Is it equivalent if the prepaid cost is equal to the unprepaid cost + service - interwst?

It's unlikely that most people would actually earn any interest on that money, because they would just spend it on something else. I won't ask you to factor that in, even though it's likely to be greater than the lost interest.

Independent service garages are something of a crap shoot and if I have a problem, I can't complain to Lexus or the sales department of the dealer, who wants to sell me my next car.

If you aren't smart enough to decide on $100 wiper blades, then probably nothing will work...

There's short-range marketing and long-range marketing.

There's control and there's control.

Your "it ain't free" position leaves out several factors that may be significant to some customers. And when you calculate TCO, you must include the cost of your time.

For me, the comprehensive "everything but gas" warrantees are a good value. We own two Lexus cars. For anything but an A-level service (oil change), then send a flatbed truck with a loaner car. They drop off the loaner car and pick up my car. The next day, the bring my car back and pick up the loaner. My total time commitment is less than 30 minutes including the call to schedule it. For the A service, I drive to the service facility. They have a lounge with desks, snacks, and wireless access. I'm there for 2-3 hours and I get some work done.

The comprehensive warrantees have another benefits that your "it ain't free" position ignores.

1. Since they aren't getting paid for the repairs, there's no incentive to find things to fix. And since they are going to do any future repairs for "free", there's no incentive to skimp on repairs.

1. These warrantees are ultimately funded by the manufacturer, so they are motivated to make the car reliable. If they break less, then I have to spend less time to deal with the repairs and I am less likely to be without wheels.

My father-in-law used to check the grocery store ads and then drive across town to save 10 cents on a can of beans. He was raised in the depression and that shaped his values. He was what my mom used to call "penny wise and pound foolish". I think she might say that about you.

ymmv

Yeah, if you just stumble around blindly.

Oh, and make sure you understand something: auto dealerships are independent businesses, too. BMW, for example, has little to nothing to do with how the BMW dealer runs his service department. They're a crap shoot just as much as any other independent business.

How does any of this affect the fact that it ain't free. Period. You're paying for it.

Unfortunately, you're forced into paying what the manufacturer wants you to pay, for exactly the services the manufacturer wants to give you. That may or may not suit your needs. Why lock yourself into it?

And you pay $150 for that oil change.

Nice.

I'm sorry--did you say that the independing dealership isn't getting paid for repairs?

Did you really say that?

Of COURSE they're getting paid for repairs. Toyota pays them. The dealership isn't doing this out of the goodness of his heart.

And there are "normal wear and tear" items that aren't covered by any warranty or maintenance program. Any shop that charges $150 for an oil change has HUGE incentive to find those things. And they know all about them--while chances are extremely good that the customer doesn't, because he never bothered to open any paperwork he got, including the owner's manual.

I find it fascinating, then, that you would buy a Lexus and not a Hyundai--with its 10 year warranty. I mean, talk about incentive to make it good. That's MUCH more incentive to make it good.

I'd bet the mortgage that Toyota has engineers studying closely on how to build the engine to last the length of the warranty, but not necessarily any longer. That's how Toyota makes money.

I buy Toyota and Honda, because they make good cars and good engines. But I have no need to have the dealership be the sole source of support. I don't pay up front, which gives me the flexibility on how to handle things on a case by case basis. That's not penny wise/pound foolish; that's simply good old fashioned common sense.

Not at all.

I don't dispute that. I get the same benefits by going to my Honda dealer. I have a 20 year relationship with them, and they acknowledge it. In fact, the same people have been there all along.

But I won't lock myself in to going to them.