First, my apologies for the cross post.
I currently drive an '87 300E and am thinking about making the jump to a
lexus. My question is how do maintenance costs compare between mercedes and
lexus. the car I'm looking at is an ES300, somewhere between 93-96,
depending on price and mileage. I plan on keeping the car for a long time;
is it worth it? Also, is 8950 a good price for a '95 ES300 with 125k miles?
Thanks in advance
Have you driven the Lexus for any length of time? On paper you could take
this pretty much anyway. Behind the wheel however, there is no comparison
with an E-Class what-so-ever. Yes Mercedes maintanance is expensive but
that is mostly at dealer. A good independent MB specialist can maintain the
eClass at a resonable price.
Qusetion on the repair cost issue here. Parts are no more expensive for a
benz than they are for saab, bmw or vw, from my experience. Are they that
much cheaper for Lexus?
Also, I try to do my own work, but the labor costs seem to be pretty
standard across the board, no?
Then again, I'm in NYC, where everything is generrally equally
well, yes and no. one time I went to the dealer to get a quote for a turn
signal. aside from the cost of the part, he was including a charge for
labor to install. it was. 0.25 hours. He wanted to charge fifteen minutes
of labor at $90/hr to install the turn lamp. I ended up buying the part
from a junk yard, and the installation took me literally less than one
minute. The dealer, I've found is almost universally more expensive than
indy mechanics in my area (Austin, TX)
Hmmmm. My dealer does stuff like that for free. I can just drop by
and they'll just do it. Course the $5000 worth of repairs (covered by
my extended warranty) and the additional $1000 (not covered - out of
pocket) probably helps.
Yes, it definiteyl is _extremely_ expensive.
Interesting that in yesterday's issue of German
car mag _auto motor und sport_ reader's letters
addressing the test of the Maybach 62 in the
issue two weeks earlier had a very negative
tone about the Maybach like _profitable fraudulent
labelling_ and _miles away from Bentley_ or
_less character then the cheapest French car_.
All-in-all the readers clearly stated they would
prefer a Rolls_Royce or a Bentley for the same
And imagine this: I live in one of Germany's
biggest cities - if I had a Maybach it would
have to be transported ca. 300 km by truck
each time it needed service or repairs.
No thanks, the nearest Rolls and Bentley dealers
are in town!
Juergen - having a garage for cars up to 5.00 m only
Self-respecting Brits haven't been buying Rollers in years! Now that it's a
BMW it may change, though the problem may be that BMW management in Munich
may not have a clear idea of what a "British/English" car is supposed to be
like. Depends on who they have recruited and how much autonomy they get.
I remember reading comments about the BMW Rovers. On the interior they were
something like "a German's idea of what an English car is supposed to look
NB: To reply directly replace "nospam" with "schmetterling"
Yes, now that BMW have full control over Rolls-Royce Brits may start buying
them again. I agree about the appearance of the new BMW R-R. I have only
seen photos, but they looked awful. VW seems to have made a much better job
of continuing Bentley. I have no insight into the economics of the 'new'
Bentley and R-R companies, but my opinion is that, so far, VW got the far
better deal and has done a much better job (so why are they wasting time and
resources on the Phaeton???).
This leather and wood thing that the English seem to do so well is a tricky
thing. It's probably a good thing that Ford did not actually move Jaguar
production out of the UK, as was seriously considered. I have a 2001 Merc
with leather seats and some wood, and the wood looks fairly fake and the
interior is nothing like a Jag, but I don't care because my decision to buy
was not based on such considerations. I had never had leather seats before
and, while I like them, I am still not convinced they are obviously so
superior as many people seem to think. The main reasons I spent the extra
money was that I was advised by dealers and others that (a) they are more
robust and easier to keep clean in a cabrio and (b) not having them,
especially in the UK, will significantly affect the resale value.
I have never felt that the wood finish of any Merc, whether new or W123 is
anything other than contrived or fake-looking and many British auto
journalists have commented likewise but it really doesn't matter to me.
NB: To reply directly replace "nospam" with "schmetterling"
Excellent independent MB specialists can be found. There is one near me who
only works on MBs, and always does the job right the first time. Labor is
quite reasonable and well in line with what friends pay for their Nissans
and Fords. He does however use only MB parts.
Most new cars including lexus have more complicated electronics not just
My dealer days ended when after paying $600 for a major service, and found
the old spark plugs still in the head!
You are right that the ES is Camry based. And that happens to be a GOOD
thing. The old and no ES were not small cars, neither was the '87 E-class a
large car. I think you will find that they are comparable in terms of
Now as to ride quality for the ES, I happen to have a friend who owns a '92
Camry. It has 160,000 miles on it and is an upscale trim version. A couple a
days ago he gave me a ride in it and I was very impressed with how very well
it still road and with the lack of rattles and groans. The interior looked
very good. No cracks in the leather. I strongly doubt that a M-B of the same
vintage would have been any better. This was a Camry. I'd bet you that the
ES would be even better. Nobody builds cars that hold up better than Toyota.
That absolutely includes M-B, Audi, and BMW.
There's really no way to respond to this post. Comapring Camrys and Camry
based ES's to E-classes is like comparing....I don't know, I can't even come
up with an analogy for it. Toyotas are the most reliable cars out there, no
doubt. If you can't tell the difference between the ride of a Camry or ES
and an E-class, a 5-series or an A6, your decision should be pretty simple.
If you can, as most car people can, than you will be dissapointed with the
ride...that's all I'm sayin'... hope it helps...
Go on Ebay and look at a 1986 e-class, then look at a 1986 camry......Still
think they are comparable??? (Rhetorical question)
In reply to:
Comparing an older E class Benz to the earlier ES Lexus will reveal the
similarities and differences of each marque (rear wheel or front wheel
drive, weights and dimensions, MSRP, cash value after five years, ownership
costs, etc.). However I would say the real questions to address is how does
each drive, and how does one feel driving. (More than any statistical
comparison I think that is what really distinguishes the two cars.)
As for the argument that the ES "is a Camry", I would suggest comparing the
Hope this helps
Agreed- the only way to really distinguish is to drive them. I should have
been clearer on the camry comments. I'm not up on the 2003 lexus & camry.
Don't know if they're still the same car. In the mid 90's though, they were
the same car. Same exact car, except for trim levels. Just badge engineered,
like gm in the 80's.
Don't understand what you mean by asking me to look at old Camry's vs. old
E-class on eBay. If you mean the E will cost more, OK, it cost (a lot) more
when it was new, was more likely to be pampered with pricey maintenance, and
has much more snob appeal. An old Roller would have even more snob and cost
more than a Merc and it would be an even worse car for someone who wanted a
reliable ride. So what?
On the other hand you are right that comparing a Camry (or an ES) with an
E-class is not really fair. The E-Class was much more expensive. In the
early '90's the E-Class competed with the Lexus LS and the LS beat it
severely about the head and shoulders. No question. None. Zip. Nada.
Someone posted here asking for information about mid nineties ES's vs.
e-classes, and your response is that your friend has a great old camry, and
LS's are better than E-classes.... Did anybody ask?
Have you ever driven a '95 ES or an '87 e-class? That info would be on topic
Now you've changed topic and are comparing e-classes to LS's. I guess that's
what you do when you realize you made a ridiculous argument. Change course
in mid stream.You said that e-classes and camrys were comparabable in
passenger space, which is true. You said that an older e-class wouldn't be
any better than your friends old camry. Not true. In terms of performance,
safety, handling and ride, the cars are incomparable. Come on, admit
Take your rant somewhere else.....
You seem to be very concerned about snob appeal- must be some sort of
inferiority complex. I've had three Benzes, and they've all been amazing
cars, granted none newer than a 1986. I will continue to drive them until
they fail me. They haven't yet. You seem to have a problem with that- where
does snob appeal fit into my reasoning?
If I were you, I would ride on a MB before you make a comment. It's something
not pen + words can tell how safe and proud you feel when you are riding on MB.
You will find that Japanese cars are just the toys comparing to a real solid
Sorry to disagree, but have owned two MB E400's. Nothing but trouble. Most
covered under warranty, but a pain in the ass. At least once every two weeks
I would have to call the dealer to have a loaner ready because I was coming
in with another problem.
I would rather have a Lexus and not feel so proud, but know I would reach my
destination without having to worry about a tow truck.
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