How long should a battery last?

Do you sell them or something?

Watch my lips.

They're an expensive and unnecessary luxury for a road car.

Not any more. I used to. And I did so because they were good. Still are.

I notice you cut all the reasons why this statement is totally wrong twice now. I wont waste time trying to tell you again because its pretty obvious that you cant understand it and have yet to tell me why you are right! Sorry but you dont understand enough to argue with.

How about "they're an expensive and unnecessary luxury for the majority of road cars"?

Coz let's face it, cheap and nasty batteries work well enough for most people.

cheers, clive

Yep I never said otherwise. But he claims that optimas are a "con" his words. Simply because he doesent care about the advantages. Nobody is forcing him to buy one! If he wants a cheap "works well enough" battery thats his choice. Its not mine. But just because he doesent undertand the difference it seems they are a "con"! Not everybody wants the cheapest solution do they. Or we would all drive korean built cars. They "work well enough" too. but we choose not to. Well most of us do.

"Burgerman" gurgled happily, sounding much like they were saying:

When it comes to a battery, there is nothing other than "works well enough". Either it starts the car or it doesn't.

If it starts the battery and lasts for a reasonable time, what possible other benefit is there?

If an Optima starts the battery and lasts three times as long (because it costs three times as much), then it's worth having - as long as you're planning to keep the car that long.

Thats the point. After weeks or months at an airport car park in winter for example my money isnt on the cheapie! And the self discharge and parasitic drain will without doubt have damaged a simple starter battery even if it "does" start you car. Its future capacity and current capability just got degraded. Theres more to batteries than starts or not.

You cant start a battery!

AS ABOVE...

and lasts three times as long (because it

It doesent have to last 3 times as long. If its slightly better its worth the money to many people. Is a rollex watch 1000s of times better than a cheap digital? Both tell the time. Same with most things. Cameras. Cheap point and shoot is 80 percent as good as my D300 but at less that a tenth of the price. Quality costs. If you cant afford it or choose not to thats up to you.

But thats just personal choice. They are physically better and electrically far superior and will suffer less degradation due to abuse and heavy disharge and still start your car in more adverse conditions years from now where the neibour is messing about with jump leads.. Some people want the best. Some cant afford or dont need that. Many can and do. Including me.

If you just want basic everything you are the sort of person that drives a reliant robin, wears a timex watch etc then thats a personal choice. I am not stopping anyone! But the claim that optimas were a scam or whatever the word was is plain ignorance based on a total lack of knowledge! And still he keeps digging.

I am very reliant being wheelchair bound on electric ramps, electric suspension lowering and of course starting. It has to go. I gave away the original brand new battery in my dodge the week I got it. I no longer sell batteries so paid full price for a bigger reserve time, bigger capacity, lower internal resistance deep cycle capability lighter longer lived battery. Because it HAS to work. That too was my choice. Based on a good understanding of batteries that is better than average. .

Even if you're not, you can migrate the battery to your next car.

"Burgerman" gurgled happily, sounding much like they were saying:

Hardly a common scenario. And, even if it is, long-term car parks have staff with jump-packs.

YKWIM...

Sorry, but I don't know anybody who flashes their car battery at other people to impress 'em...

You get a different result out of them. You do not get a different result out of a car battery.

It either starts the car, or it doesn't. If it does, that's sufficient.

For the vast majority of people, the cheapest battery from the motor factor will outlast their ownership of the car.

Umm, you may not have noticed, but that was my first post in this thread.

A very different scenario to the vast, vast majority of people.

Yes you do. Thats exactly the point. You get more amps when its a bit low for whatever reason. More starts before it lets you down, more reliabilirty under adverse conditions. That is what you pay for.

They perform better.

So in a couple of years time when your cheapy lets you down because its lost capacity and has high internal resistance in the middle of winter and you miss an appoint,ent or just get stuck with a non starting car then its NOT sufficient.

Some people are prepared to pay for a better battery.

So what? That was never the point. If thats what they want let them buy the crappy battery. That stil;l does not mean that a AGM battery like the optimas isnt superior in every way. Even a new cheap battery can let you down if you leave your lights on too long or whatever.

No I never noticed, it goes on too long.

Is it?

What about caravaners, winches, aftermarket equipment like sterios, lights, alarms, etc. Or people that live in obscure places, wrecker trucks with extra warning lights, race support vehicles, public servive and emergency vehicles, leisure vahicles that are used infrequently, off roaders, people that use laptops while parked up at work, radio hams that sit foer hours using their cars power, etc etc. These are less of a minority than you might think. Or even your mum who forgets to turn the lights off...

It's one of the claims Optima - and its dealers - make. But haven't the balls to back it up with a warranty.

Thanks for proving you just read advertising.

The reason many modern cars won't start after a period of time is because of quiescent drain from the electronics so prevalent these days. Absolutely nothing to do with the battery. Unless you include the capacity in that.

There's very little difference in self discharge rates between any type of lead acid cell in good condition - to all practical purposes they're all excellent compared to other storage batteries.

I will try again.

Because they have virtually no voltage drop compared to a normal battery under load even a nominally flat one will still start a truck.

As a battery gets more discharged its internal resistance and therefore its CCA falls drastically. A half flat cheapy may well not have half its rated CCA dsue to voltage drop. An optima (that actually started out with a much bigger CCA figure size for size anyway) does drop its CCA as it becomes discharged but not as signifficantly. And it in most cases can still more than outperform a fully charged cheapy.

You keep on proving to the world that you are clueless. Keep it up its fun!

The point is that due to its already superior CCA AND its lower internal resistance even a discharged one will still start your car! And it wont suffer as much damage while being discharged either! So next time it happens it will outperform the cheap battery even more!

I understand batteries and a lot of other things. Its pretty obvious that you dont.

Keep digging.

Absolute rubbish.

And here the AGM batteries with pure lead plates way out perform all other types. An optima can be left disconnected on the shelf or in the vehicle and will still start your car or truck 12 months later.

A conventional cheap lerad acid loses around 40 to 50 percent of its charge in 3 months. At which point its unlikely to be able to sdtart a car due to its high internal resistance. (you see this when the lights dim when you try to start the car. Volts drop from 12.something to an awful lot less. The SAME capacity optima on the other hand COULD easily start a car when 50 percent discharged as it has low internal resistance even in the deep cycle batteries And it will most likely still exeed the OEM batteries CCA in this condition. Thats why it can start an engine when well discharged after 12 months!

Keep it up.

They cant can they. Because ignoramuses / racers / boats / all the other uses people that dont understand batteries use them for would leave it discharged over winter flat as a pancake connected up and bugger it. Or replace a problem battery (likely caused by incorrect charging whong equipment etc) with a better battery to "cure" the problem. Many get abused horribly as they are generally uised in very unfreindly situations unlike cheapie car batteries.

But treated like you would treat a normal starter battery they will easily outlast one several times. Mostly because leaving them discharged to a degree does much less damage that to a cheap one.

Deep cycles are even worse on warranty. Optimas deep cycle battery has less warranty that the cheaper red top starter battery at a year. it can both exeed the OEM batteries CCA AND be deep cycled. Simply because people use them like I do in cyclic applications where 300 to 500 really deep (almost flat) cycles (around a year in a powerchair) is the best thats available. Then dustbin. Its expected. No other battery is as capable here. The best of the rest does much worse. I have tried everything worthwhile including the next best two. The Sonnechien A500 and the Hawker Odyssey batteries. Some have equal cycle life (Sonnechien at even more cost than optimas) but cannot give much power when almost flat and certainly couldnt start a car! Some just cant live with 80 to 90 percent cycles (Hawker) So if the EXPECTED life is around 12 months in this sort of cyclic case then how can they (or any other deep cycle) offer a longer warranty?

"Burgerman" gurgled happily, sounding much like they were saying:

Odd. I thought you said that being discharged wouldn't damage it, and that it'd still start a truck after being left sat "nominally flat...?

Ah, yes. So you did.

Message-ID:

Sitting flat DOES damage an battery. Pure lead plate deep cycle capable ones less so. And due to its low internal resistance it will still start a truck as the voltage drop is extremely small.

No you dont understand the difference. A normal nominally flat battery around 12.1 volts wont have the current capability to do much at all because its voltage will fall to bugger all under load. Optimas dont. You can USE the last few percent and take it out. power is usable for more of the capacity due to low internal resistance.

Strange. Other makers give an unconditional guarantee on 'normal' batteries. Not once with an inflated price tag.

What bollocks. If it's flat, it's flat. If it can still start a car it is partially discharged - not flat.

Well you're right about that, anyway.

Why are you comparing an extremely expensive battery with a 'cheapy'? Comparing it to a decent make at half the price is rather more revealing.

You keep on quoting the sales blurb - that's for sure.

Don't you ever wonder why none of the top car makers fit Optima as standard, John?

You're digging yourself a big hole there...

As can any lead acid in good condition stored correctly.

Then don't buy cheap ones.

You need exclamation marks now?

You should branch out into hi-fi cables. Even bigger profits from snake oil there.

I returned a few to halfords.earlier this year. They refused to honour their warrantee because and I quote "I used them in a cyclic manor for which they were not designed and had already had 3 sets changed in less than 3 months".

They were recommended to my by their battery "expert" and I was told that they were perfectly suitable. They were actually manufactured for them by Varta. I was assured that the warrantee would be honoured if there was any problem. I explained that I would be deep cycling them daily and going by the weight, price and the fact that they were really just "leisure batteries in disguise" that I would expect to get about 20 to 30 cycles from them before they were buggered.. He showed me the big bold DEEP CYCLE sticker on the top and said that there was no problem.

These were the only "deep cycle" and lesure batteries I had ever seen a) at that frankly rediculously cheap price and b) they had a 2 year warranty! On deep cycles! Unheard of at any price.

They were halfords own. (Actually Varta. Varta do make a decent deep cycle battery at the same price as the optima/sonnechein/hawker etc only this wasnt it!)

Optima, hawker, sonnechein, etc top branded deep cycles are about 400 quid a set. These were 70 something a pair with my trade card...

They lasted about a month per set. 6 new batteries in 3 months. I wouldnt count on your batteries or warrantee on being any good if I were you...

The garantee with optimas is that they are just good batteries in every way! They genuinely are much better like all decent AGM batteries better technology. They only die if you kill them through massive ignorance. Like every other battery only you have to be exeptionally ignorant!

How did Halfrauds know what type of house you live in?